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#1
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GPT (Gulfport MS) ILS 14 question
About to take a trip down to Gulfport MS (GPT) tomorrow morning.
Ceilings are forecasted to be 300 broken, so I really doubt that I will be mucking around with full procedure approaches in the clag, but while I was studying the approaches into GPT, I am kinda figuring on expecting vectors for the ILS 14 approach based on forecasted winds. Looking at the approach, the IAF is CAESA. Outside the 10 NM ring, it says 2000 no PT, so, I would take it that no procedure turn is authorized, yet, I see the procedure turn barbs just inside the 10 NM ring. Am I reading this correctly that no procedure turns for the ILS is authorized outside this 10NM ring, and if I was to do a full procedure approach that it must be inside the the 10 NM ring??? Or what am I missing? This question is coming up, as when I got my flight briefing, the briefer said, no procedure turn at CAESA from Victor 552 which in my opinion agrees with the approach chart, yet I see the procedure turn barbs outbound 268 and inbound 088 to intercept the localizer. Any assistance in clearing up my question really appreciated. Allen |
#2
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"A Lieberman" wrote in message ... About to take a trip down to Gulfport MS (GPT) tomorrow morning. Ceilings are forecasted to be 300 broken, so I really doubt that I will be mucking around with full procedure approaches in the clag, but while I was studying the approaches into GPT, I am kinda figuring on expecting vectors for the ILS 14 approach based on forecasted winds. Looking at the approach, the IAF is CAESA. Outside the 10 NM ring, it says 2000 no PT, so, I would take it that no procedure turn is authorized, yet, I see the procedure turn barbs just inside the 10 NM ring. Am I reading this correctly that no procedure turns for the ILS is authorized outside this 10NM ring, and if I was to do a full procedure approach that it must be inside the the 10 NM ring??? Or what am I missing? I'm looking at the naco chart at http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0501/00576IL14.PDF The procedure turn is applicable only if you start the approach at the BAYOU IAF. The "2000 noPT" designation applies only if you start the approach at the CAESA IAF. The barb being inside or outside the 10nm ring is not significant itself (though it shows outside the 10nm ring on the naco chart), but the profile view clearly indicates that you must remain within 15nm on the procedure turn. This question is coming up, as when I got my flight briefing, the briefer said, no procedure turn at CAESA from Victor 552 which in my opinion agrees with the approach chart, yet I see the procedure turn barbs outbound 268 and inbound 088 to intercept the localizer. Any assistance in clearing up my question really appreciated. I expect that most FSS briefers know very little about approaches Have a great flight! Cheers, John Clonts Temple, Texas N7NZ |
#3
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:10:43 -0600, John Clonts wrote:
I'm looking at the naco chart at http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0501/00576IL14.PDF The procedure turn is applicable only if you start the approach at the BAYOU IAF. The "2000 noPT" designation applies only if you start the approach at the CAESA IAF. The barb being inside or outside the 10nm ring is not significant itself (though it shows outside the 10nm ring on the naco chart), but the profile view clearly indicates that you must remain within 15nm on the procedure turn. Hey John, Thanks for your quick reply. What you say makes perfect sense!!! (I am using the NACO chart as well) However.... I expect that most FSS briefers know very little about approaches I should have said that the FSS gave me the following FDC. FDC 5/0505 GPT FI/T GULFPORT-BILOXI INTL, GULFPORT, MS. ILS OR LOC RWY 14, AMDT 14... CHANGE PLANVIEW NOTE: PROCEDURE NA FOR ARRIVALS AT CAESA VIA V552 WESTBOUND VICE V522 WESTBOUND. IF and only IF I was wanting to do a full procedure approach coming from any other direction then westbound, would a procedure turn be authorized based on the above FDC? If not, what is this FDC about? Have a great flight! Tops are forecasted to be 5000, filed 5000 for starters as I am expecting higher tailwinds at a lower altitude. Should be real good, but short (almost too short!) *smile*. Allen |
#4
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:33:29 -0600, A Lieberman wrote:
FDC 5/0505 GPT FI/T GULFPORT-BILOXI INTL, GULFPORT, MS. ILS OR LOC RWY 14, AMDT 14... CHANGE PLANVIEW NOTE: PROCEDURE NA FOR ARRIVALS AT CAESA VIA V552 WESTBOUND VICE V522 WESTBOUND. IF and only IF I was wanting to do a full procedure approach coming from any other direction then westbound, would a procedure turn be authorized based on the above FDC? If not, what is this FDC about? DUH, Stan Prevost, cleared this question up! I think I was combining procedure and procedure turn together, rather then two different "terms". Thanks to all for clearing this up! Allen |
#5
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Sorry for not seeing the original posting, but this is all I had. Your display
of the NOTAM says to change V522 to V552. Since the enroute chart shows no V522, only V552, is it possible that they simply made a typo on the original and were trying to change the approach chart to say not to make the PT on V552 instead of V522. Just a thought. Charles |
#6
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Sorry, but I missed the original posting. I believe that at GPT there is no
V522, only V552. Maybe they charted something wrong and the NOTAM was to change the error, V522, to the correct airway, V552. DC 5/0505 GPT FI/T GULFPORT-BILOXI INTL, GULFPORT, MS. ILS OR LOC RWY 14, AMDT 14... CHANGE PLANVIEW NOTE: PROCEDURE NA FOR ARRIVALS AT CAESA VIA V552 WESTBOUND VICE V522 WESTBOUND. IF and only IF I was wanting to do a full procedure approach coming from any other direction then westbound, would a procedure turn be authorized based on the above FDC? If not, what is this FDC about? |
#7
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#8
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CKonikoff wrote: Sorry, but I missed the original posting. I believe that at GPT there is no V522, only V552. Maybe they charted something wrong and the NOTAM was to change the error, V522, to the correct airway, V552. DC 5/0505 GPT FI/T GULFPORT-BILOXI INTL, GULFPORT, MS. ILS OR LOC RWY 14, AMDT 14... CHANGE PLANVIEW NOTE: PROCEDURE NA FOR ARRIVALS AT CAESA VIA V552 WESTBOUND VICE V522 WESTBOUND. IF and only IF I was wanting to do a full procedure approach coming from any other direction then westbound, would a procedure turn be authorized based on the above FDC? If not, what is this FDC about? They made a mistake on the airway number. What the NOTAM clarifies is that you cannot do the procedure at all arriving on V552 from the east, because it exceeds the 120-degree course change limitation of TERPs Paragraph 220. CAESA is on V552, so it is not possible to do the procedure turn arriving on that route. Arriving on V-552 from the west results in less than a 120-degree course change at CAESA, and because "NoPT" is authorized after CAESA, it's straight-in from that direction on V-552. It's only been in the past three years or so that they have started adding these course change limitation notes to IAPs, although the requirement has always existed in TERPS (subparagraph "b" below): 220. FEEDER ROUTES. When the IAF is part of the enroute structure there may be no need to designate additional routes for aircraft to proceed to the IAF. In some cases, however, it is necessary to designate feeder routes from the enroute structure to the IAF. Only those feeder routes which provide an operational advantage shall be established and published. These should coincide with the local air traffic flow. The length of the feeder route shall not exceed the operational service volume of the facilities which provide navigational guidance unless additional frequency protection is provided. Enroute airway obstacle clearance criteria shall apply to feeder routes. The minimum altitude established on feeder routes shall not be less than the altitude established at the IAF. a. Construction of a feeder route connecting to a course reversal segment. The area considered for obstacle evaluation is oriented along the feeder route at a width appropriate to the type of route (VOR or NDB). The area terminates at the course reversal fix, and is defined by a line perpendicular to the feeder course through the course reversal fix. b. The angle of intersection between the feeder route course and the next straight segment (feeder/initial) course shall not exceed 120°. c. Descent Gradient. The OPTIMUM descent gradient in the feeder route is 250 feet per mile. Where a higher descent gradient is necessary, the MAXIMUM permissible gradient is 500 feet per mile. The OPTIMUM descent gradient for high altitude penetrations is 800 feet per mile. Where a higher descent gradient is necessary, the MAXIMUM permissible is 1,000 feet per mile. |
#9
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Jepp chart is posted at alt.binaries.pictures. aviation |
#10
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I think a lot of folks may not know what "VICE" really means!
CKonikoff wrote: Sorry, but I missed the original posting. I believe that at GPT there is no V522, only V552. Maybe they charted something wrong and the NOTAM was to change the error, V522, to the correct airway, V552. DC 5/0505 GPT FI/T GULFPORT-BILOXI INTL, GULFPORT, MS. ILS OR LOC RWY 14, AMDT 14... CHANGE PLANVIEW NOTE: PROCEDURE NA FOR ARRIVALS AT CAESA VIA V552 WESTBOUND VICE V522 WESTBOUND. IF and only IF I was wanting to do a full procedure approach coming from any other direction then westbound, would a procedure turn be authorized based on the above FDC? If not, what is this FDC about? |
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