Replacing innertubes without replacing tires?

On 2006-11-01, Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

Fill them with Nitrogen they won't leak as much. Not that I've tried it.

The way my A&P drives a nitrogen cylinder they wouldn't leak because
the wheel halves would be in different counties...

--
Ben Jackson AD7GD

http://www.ben.com/

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:



Fill them with Nitrogen they won't leak as much. Not that I've tried it.


How do you figure that? Air is already mostly nitrogen. Why would a
higher concentration of nitrogen leak any less than plain old air? The
difference in atom sizes between nitrogen and the other major
constituents of air is on the order of a few percent, so even the other
constituents aren't going to leak out leaving just nitrogen.

"Ray Andraka" wrote in message
...
Gig 601XL Builder wrote:



Fill them with Nitrogen they won't leak as much. Not that I've tried it.
How do you figure that? Air is already mostly nitrogen. Why would a
higher concentration of nitrogen leak any less than plain old air? The
difference in atom sizes between nitrogen and the other major constituents
of air is on the order of a few percent, so even the other constituents
aren't going to leak out leaving just nitrogen.

And, that few percent difference makes a small fraction of a percent
difference in how fast they leak. Not enough to notice, but enough that tire
stores around here (Detroit) make all kinds of wild claims about the
advantages of buying tires from them and having them filled with N2...

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

Because back in the good old daze when inner tubes weren't quite as well
done from a chemistry point of view the oxygen in the air WOULD attack the
rubber and cause it to deteriorate quicker than with pure nitrogen. Back
when I wuz wit da airlines, we used nitrogen exclusively to fill tires on
the torches.

Jim



"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote in message
news:hdSdnbmXe9pLpNTYnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
"Ray Andraka" wrote in message
...
Gig 601XL Builder wrote:



Fill them with Nitrogen they won't leak as much. Not that I've tried it.
How do you figure that? Air is already mostly nitrogen. Why would a
higher concentration of nitrogen leak any less than plain old air? The
difference in atom sizes between nitrogen and the other major
constituents of air is on the order of a few percent, so even the other
constituents aren't going to leak out leaving just nitrogen.

And, that few percent difference makes a small fraction of a percent
difference in how fast they leak. Not enough to notice, but enough that
tire stores around here (Detroit) make all kinds of wild claims about the
advantages of buying tires from them and having them filled with N2...

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Ray Andraka" wrote in message
...
Gig 601XL Builder wrote:



Fill them with Nitrogen they won't leak as much. Not that I've tried it.
How do you figure that? Air is already mostly nitrogen. Why would a
higher concentration of nitrogen leak any less than plain old air? The
difference in atom sizes between nitrogen and the other major constituents
of air is on the order of a few percent, so even the other constituents
aren't going to leak out leaving just nitrogen.

As I said I haven't tried it but there are 398,000 hits when you Google
Nitrogen filled tires. I saw and ad for it in one of the aircraft mags the
other day and hadn't really looked into it that much. But glancing at the
Google results the opinions are mixed between works well and snake oil.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
"Ray Andraka" wrote in message
...

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:



Fill them with Nitrogen they won't leak as much. Not that I've tried it.

How do you figure that? Air is already mostly nitrogen. Why would a
higher concentration of nitrogen leak any less than plain old air? The
difference in atom sizes between nitrogen and the other major constituents
of air is on the order of a few percent, so even the other constituents
aren't going to leak out leaving just nitrogen.


As I said I haven't tried it but there are 398,000 hits when you Google
Nitrogen filled tires. I saw and ad for it in one of the aircraft mags the
other day and hadn't really looked into it that much. But glancing at the
Google results the opinions are mixed between works well and snake oil.



There are reasons for using nitrogen in tires, but leakage isn't one of
them. From what I understand, high pressure tires often need nitrogen
because if regular air was used the high pressure of the oxygen mix
becomes combustible and can lead to tire fires. In our spam cans
though, the pressures aren't high enough to cause problems. There's
also the convenience thing if you happen to have bottled nitrogen in the
hangar, and finally some have said that it keeps the rubber from
oxidizing, but I doubt that is a real issue since the outsides will
deteriorate long before the inside oxidizes enough to be a problem.

I don't know the practical aspects of N2 v O2 in modern tubes, but the
partial pressure of O2 in a tire inflated to 30 psi is 3x that on the
outside of the tube. If anything in the rubber tended to oxidize, it would
oxidize significantly faster at the higher O2 partial pressure.
It may not be a practical problem in tubes, but I'll bet it makes a
difference in a strut (1000 psi?)

--
Best Regards,
Mike

http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel

"Ray Andraka" wrote in message
...
Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
"Ray Andraka" wrote in message
...

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:



Fill them with Nitrogen they won't leak as much. Not that I've tried it.

How do you figure that? Air is already mostly nitrogen. Why would a
higher concentration of nitrogen leak any less than plain old air? The
difference in atom sizes between nitrogen and the other major
constituents of air is on the order of a few percent, so even the other
constituents aren't going to leak out leaving just nitrogen.


As I said I haven't tried it but there are 398,000 hits when you Google
Nitrogen filled tires. I saw and ad for it in one of the aircraft mags
the other day and hadn't really looked into it that much. But glancing at
the Google results the opinions are mixed between works well and snake
oil.

There are reasons for using nitrogen in tires, but leakage isn't one of
them. From what I understand, high pressure tires often need nitrogen
because if regular air was used the high pressure of the oxygen mix
becomes combustible and can lead to tire fires. In our spam cans though,
the pressures aren't high enough to cause problems. There's also the
convenience thing if you happen to have bottled nitrogen in the hangar,
and finally some have said that it keeps the rubber from oxidizing, but I
doubt that is a real issue since the outsides will deteriorate long before
the inside oxidizes enough to be a problem.

"Mike Noel" wrote in message
. ..
I don't know the practical aspects of N2 v O2 in modern tubes, but the
partial pressure of O2 in a tire inflated to 30 psi is 3x that on the
outside of the tube. If anything in the rubber tended to oxidize, it would
oxidize significantly faster at the higher O2 partial pressure.
It may not be a practical problem in tubes, but I'll bet it makes a
difference in a strut (1000 psi?)

Is anybody suggesting the use of O2?

Gig 601XL Builder wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote:

"Mike Noel" wrote in message
. ..
I don't know the practical aspects of N2 v O2 in modern tubes, but the
partial pressure of O2 in a tire inflated to 30 psi is 3x that on the
outside of the tube. If anything in the rubber tended to oxidize, it would
oxidize significantly faster at the higher O2 partial pressure.
It may not be a practical problem in tubes, but I'll bet it makes a
difference in a strut (1000 psi?)

Is anybody suggesting the use of O2?

How do you not use O2 if you use air?

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote in message
news
Gig 601XL Builder wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote:

"Mike Noel" wrote in message
. ..
I don't know the practical aspects of N2 v O2 in modern tubes, but the
partial pressure of O2 in a tire inflated to 30 psi is 3x that on the
outside of the tube. If anything in the rubber tended to oxidize, it
would
oxidize significantly faster at the higher O2 partial pressure.
It may not be a practical problem in tubes, but I'll bet it makes a
difference in a strut (1000 psi?)

Is anybody suggesting the use of O2?

How do you not use O2 if you use air?


Well if we are going to call using "air" using O2 we might as well call it
using N2. There is a lot more N than O.