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#11
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WalterM140 wrote:
Kerry was treated for the wound at a medical facility in Cam Ranh Bay. That's @ 100 miles from the Mekong Delta. It's a long way to go for a bandaid. Perhaps you should look at the map. You will find Nha Trang to be ~40k N. of CRB. John Kerry was a (jg), the OinC or skipper of a Swift boat, newly arrived in Vietnam. On the night of December 2, he was on patrol north of Cam Ranh, up near Nha Trang area. The next day he came to sick bay, the medical facility, for treatment of a wound that had occurred that night. Apparently it wasn't too far to go for 1/3 of an early out. Jack |
#12
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It's clear now that Bush failed to satisfactorily complete his service.
Records have been destroyed and fabricated to cover this up. Sez you. And of course your credentials as regards verifiable facts are impeccable? They are good enough. Analysis of the payroll records show that he did not attend/make up at least five drills. Other factoids: Bush was inducted in May, 1968, but not released until November, 1974. That is what his "military biography" says. Why was he held over his six year commtment? What happened to the results of the mandatory Board of Inquiry into his being grounded? Those of you who voted for Bush in 2000, and support him now -- you were duped. 8/7/2004 "Official confirms Bush should have been on active duty after failing to train at Harvard By John Byrne | Raw Story Editor In yet another stunning indictment of President George W. Bush’s failure to complete his required military service, a senior Reagan defense official confirmed that Bush should have been placed on active duty when he failed to find a Guard unit to serve with after tranferring to Massachusetts to attend Harvard Business school. When asked if Bush should have been put on active duty when he failed to find another unit to train with, Korb said, “Yes.” The Air Force has declined to comment after being reached several times during the last three days. Bush began classes at Harvard in September 1973, and tranferred out of the Texas Air National Guard in October. After receiving his discharge papers, which were postmarked October 16, he was assigned to the Air Reserve Personnel Center (the default non-location based assignment center). He then had 60 days to find a new unit. He didn’t. Under regulations, he was then absent without leave for a second time, the first being for five months in 1972. He would remain so until he was put in an executive officer support position on March 7, 1974. He is then listed as being on active status, although there are no orders or documents to account for why he had changed positions and had been reactivated. Nor was he qualified for this position, which under Air Force Regulations, mandates a full year of training. Moreover, he did not serve in any executive position while training as a pilot. More importantly, however, Bush never showed up for another drill ever again. The last drill he completed credited him though September 1973 – a little more than five years into his six-year requirement, which should have ended in May of 1974. “You have an obligation,” Korb asserted. “Back then if you joined the Guard you had to go into a selected reserve for six years.” The only explanation for such a gross violation of military regulations was for someone to have “fixed” Bush’s status, put him in a position for which he was not qualified, and eventually discharged him. But it would have been impossible for Bush to have actually fulfilled his six-year service requirement." http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=178 Mo 8/3/2004 Air Force appears to discharge Bush after discovering he was AWOL By John Byrne | RAW STORY Editor New research confirmed by RAW STORY and verified with federal law and military regulations, indicates that in late 1973 or early 1974, the United States Air Force, which supervises and whose jurisdiction supercedes the Air National Guard, attempted to discharge then-Lieutenant George W. Bush." http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=177 It's clear Bush did not complete his commitment satisfactorily. Hopefully the Press will actually start to do their jobs, finally. Karl Rove unleashing the Swift Boats Vets is going to bite the Bush campaign in the butt. Walt |
#13
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IBM wrote in message . ..
(WalterM140) wrote in : Kerry was treated for the wound at a medical facility in Cam Ranh Bay. That's @ 100 miles from the Mekong Delta. OK, I'll stipulate that. It's a long way to go for a bandaid. Which raises interesting questions about Trotskerry's location when the alleged injuries were incurred. Of course release of his military records might lay all doubts to rest IBM Guys - you didn't read this very carefully. Kerry was up around Cam Rahn Bay at the time he was wounded. Actually the stuff I have seen says he had a months training up there before heading for his assignment. __________________________________________________ _____________________________ Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com The Worlds Uncensored News Source |
#15
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WalterM140 wrote:
Records have been destroyed and fabricated to cover this up. Another vast right wing conspiracy huh? Yes. Walt |
#16
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#17
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Analysis of the payroll records show that he did not attend/make up at least five drills. You can't find them in other words. DOD is happy with the record. Are they still on about that? Bush actually attended more drills in his last two years than were expected of him. See www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm for an analysis of his military service that takes into account all the paranoid stuff that has been posted and published on this subject. The common thread I find in the anti-Bush articles and web pages is an almost complete ignorance of military procedure. For example, you will find breathless pointing to the fact that he "was ordered" to attend a weekend of training, misunderstanding the statement that he "got orders" for the drill--in other words, he received authorization. Another instance: your ditsy interlocutor points with shock to the fact that Bush served six months EXTRA! Omigod! Surely this proves something? Sure, it proves that he spent 12 months in the inactive reserve in exchange for having 6 months chopped off his Guard duty. all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com Expedition sailboat charters www.expeditionsail.com |
#18
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Guys - you didn't read this very carefully. Kerry was up around Cam
Rahn Bay at the time he was wounded. Actually the stuff I have seen says he had a months training up there before heading for his assignment. You're absolutely right. Walt |
#19
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Another instance: your ditsy interlocutor points with shock to the
fact that Bush served six months EXTRA! Omigod! Surely this proves something? Yes. It indicates that he skipped five monthly drills and didn't make them up, which is what the recently released DOD records -conclusively- show. Walt |
#20
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Sure, it proves that he spent 12 months in the inactive reserve in
exchange for having 6 months chopped off his Guard duty. No, it's all out now. The records released by the DOD recently show conclusively that Bush failed to attend or make up five drills. And there's more. "A RESEARCHER UNCOVERS THE FACTS As it turned out, the key was a willingness to dive deep into these documents, and knowing how to read them. Rove counted on the essential laziness and ignorance of ordinary mainstream reporters, who wouldn't be aware of what all those military codes and numbers and jargon-terms meant. Once again, as in so many other areas, the "underground" journalists - in our time, those working on the internet - rode to the rescue. On this issue, the energy and laser-like focus came from one Paul Lukasiak of Philadelphia. It turns out that, unlike the great majority of ordinary journalists, Lukasiak was undaunted by the hundreds of pages of dry military records distributed by the White House. He was a bloodhound on the hunt. And, he possessed some experience in working with old documents, especially old military punch-card records from 30 years ago. In a recent email, Lukasiak described how he pieced the story together: I spent a couple of months reading the statutes, DoD regulation, and Air Force policies and procedures, and spent a great deal of time figuring out the rest of the payroll records and 'points records' themselves. Having acquired a certain amount of knowledge, the nature and the meaning of the pattern in the payroll data became self-evident....Just by looking at the data lines found in the payroll records, there are obvious patterns that anyone could detect. And so, piece by piece, Lukasiak pulled together the jigsaw puzzle that was George W. Bush's long-ago, much-abbreviated military service. And, lo and behold, he figured it out. His four months of research led him to a number of incendiary conclusions, documented with his meticulous research, which were picked up by a relatively small number of online websites - Corrente, Kevin Drum, Democrats.com, The Crisis Papers. For example, here's what Lukasiak furnished The Crisis Papers, as a way of summing up his four months of research; the emphasis is supplied: BUSH'S SERVICE WAS "MISREPRESENTED" An examination of U.S. Statutory Law, Department of Defense Regulations, and Air Force policies and procedures from the early seventies proves that George W. Bush and his spokesmen have consistently misrepresented the nature and extent of his obligations as a member of the United States armed forces. When considered within their proper legal and policy context, the Bush records effectively rebut the White House claim that Bush 'fulfilled his duty.' When considered as a whole, these documents reveal that Bush spent the last two years of his six-year Military Service Obligation in an active effort to avoid fulfilling the obligations and commitments he incurred upon entering the Texas Air National Guard. They also show that while some Texas officials aided and abetted Bush's efforts (and others apparently acquiesced to what was happening), there is no reason to question the character of Alabama officials, or Air Reserve Forces personnel as a whole. Finally, the only conclusion that can be reached from an examination of Bush's records for the period after he quit the Air National Guard is that the Air Force attempted to take punitive measures against Bush, but that political pressure prevented those measures from being carried out. Lawrence Korb - who was Assistant Secretary of Defense for Manpower, Reserve Affairs, Installations and Logistics under Reagan from 1981-85 - appears to agree with the conclusion based on the key five-month period of Bush's service when there are no records that he reported for duty: "If you don't show up, you're absent without leave, by definition." Dynamite stuff, yes? " http://www.democraticunderground.com...8/12_awol.html Aniother link: http://www.glcq.com/ "On February 10. 2004, the White House released a number of documents[1] related to George W. Bush’s military service in the Texas Air National Guard. (TXANG). The White House claimed repeatedly (twelve time in fact, see box) that these documents proved that Bush had fulfilled his duty. In fact, not only did those documents fail to prove that Bush had “fulfilled his duties”, they prove the opposite. On Friday, February 13, 2004, the White House released what it described as all the documents[2] in Bush’s personnel files. Most accurately described as a “document dump” the hundreds of pages were thoroughly disorganized and filled with scores of duplicate pages. The mainstream press was confronted with this massive amount of information to sift through, and had no expertise with which to evaluate the information contained in the documents. As a result, virtually no real reporting was done on the documents, other than to state that there was “no smoking gun” found, apparently because none of the documents announced in bold type “BUSH WAS AWOL”. But the records released by the White House contained more than a “smoking gun”. They contained a whole arsenal of documents that, if you know the context in which they were written, establish beyond a shadow of a doubt that “Bush was AWOL.” These documents include: 1) “Points” records showing that for two straight years, Bush did not perform the training that was mandated by law, and which could not be excused by his superior officers. (See The Points Scam) 2) Payroll records showing that Bush requested and received pay and point credit for which he was ineligible under Air Force policy (See Fraud—The Secrets of Bush’s Payroll Records Revealed) 3) Documents related to Bush’s attempted transfer to the “9921st Air Reserve Squadron” showing that the request was an attempt by Bush to fraudulently escape his obligations as a member of the United States Armed Forces (See The Transfer Scam) 4) Documents showing that Bush’s superior officers attempted to cover up for Bush being “AWOL”, but eventually had to admit that they had lost track of Bush for an entire year. (See The Cover-up in Texas). 5) Documents showing that Bush intended to desert the Armed Forces with almost a year of his statutory six year participation requirement unfulfilled (See Discharge, or Desertion?) 6) Documents showing that the Air Force understood that Bush was a “deserter”, and had taken the steps necessary to deal with someone in Bush’s position who had abandoned their commitment to the US Government. See (Deserter: Bush After TXANG) The Bush documents also reveal that 1) Bush’s personnel files were tampered with to disguise what had occurred. 2) The person upon whom the media has relied upon for its interpretation of Bush’s military records (an individual who was specifically engaged by the 2000 Bush campaign to “clear” Bush) was directly involved in providing Bush with favorable treatment as a member of the Texas Air National Guard, and 3) This person has lied about the nature of Bush’s records, and made claims regarding Bush’s obligations as a member of the United States Armed Forces that have absolutely no basis in fact For the past four years, Bush and his supporters have done everything in their power to obscure the facts concerning Bush’s military service. This series will reveal those facts, and in the process, reveal the character of George W. Bush, and those who defend and support him." Walt |
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