You know you own an airplane when...

Can't I just go to a boneyard at some repair facility (e.g. Beegles)
and have them just take one out of a plane and use that?

On 10 Mar 2007 21:56:06 -0800, "150flivver"
wrote:

Technically, an A&P cannot manufacture a replacement part such as an
entire battery box. He could "repair" the original box. The owner,
however, can manufacture a part for his airplane only and the A&P
could install it provided he vouches for its airworthiness. What is
meant by "manufacture" doesn't necessarily mean the owner has to
design and fabricate the part, but he has to be significantly involved
in some manner with its production whether that means supplying the
design to a fabrication shop or actually bending and riveting the
metal is not spelled out.

Technically, you are somewhat mistaken. As you've indicated, with some
input from owner (hey TC, can you build me another baffle just like
that busted one that Piper wants $2800 for and say will be available
in 2009?) an A & P can certainly manufacture/duplicate a replacement
part for a specific customer/airplane legally.

However, the self-same A & P cannot legally build a pile of these same
baffles and offer them for sale without additional paperwork.

Some common sense is required, a battery box or a baffle is a little
different than a milled spar section.

TC

Mike Spera wrote:
snip
Finally, you can fabricate your own parts. The rub is that you have to
get a wrench to sign off on them. There are some rules around what you
MAY need to provide as far as documentation. I saw your wrench's reply
about the CAR3 cert. I don't believe that is true, however, it is HIS
ticket. He can refuse to sign off if he believes that the tooth fairy
has something to do with it (in other words, for any reason).

Yes, I know, and I can't necessarily blame him. Like I said in another
reply (and was ridiculed for saying it), if I were in his shoes I
certainly wouldn't put my ticket at risk so a cheapskate owner could
save a few hundred dollars. Note that I'm not defending the cost of the
parts, but the right of the mechanic to choose what he signs off.

snip
The metal ram's horn yokes that replace my original plastic ones were
$1290 each from Piper (and that does not include labor to swap them). I
found ones with the plastic coating peeling off and bent control shafts
for $150 (for the pair). After refinishing them, replacing their bent
shafts with my straight ones, installing them (under my wrench's eye),
and adding pre made leather wraps, I have them both installed. Total
cost was about $500 (the leather wraps were $300 and completely optional
- they looked great painted). BUT, I have about 25 hours of my labor in
the deal.
snip

Nice solution. Some time ago I was looking for new yokes for the 172
and Cessna came back with what I thought was a fairly reasonable $350
for each yoke. Where they became UNreasonable was in charging for the
little leather / plastic piece that attaches to the center of the yoke
and shows the Cessna logo and (sometimes) the aircraft model number.
You want that? It will cost you another $300. :-)

But, to address your point here...there's the rub. I don't know about
you, but I'd rather be doing something else with that 25 hours,
including making a bunch more money so I could pay someone to deal with
this kind of minutiae. It's not that I don't like working on airplanes
but my time is now better spent doing other things, including flying them.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, ATP/CFI

http://www.dvatp.com
--------------------

Doug Vetter wrote:
While it may be legally possible to bend the rules and
fabricate a new box using a "1-square-inch piece" to represent the
existing box, that's certainly in violation of the spirit of the rule
and does represent a significant liability risk to the mechanic.

Wrong. It's perfectly legal for your mechanic to fabricate a whole new
box. No need to scavenge a piece off the old box. I had a similar
situation on my Bo. Bo's have dual exhaust and thus dual tail pipes.
Each tail pipe is supported from the firewall by a bracket. Mine broke
and part of it departed the airplane. Mechanic fabricated a new one
from supplies he had on hand and logged it as such.

.stuff snipped
I saw the old battery box today, and its condition really surprised me.
I'm amazed the battery stayed with the airplane, as two corners were
nearly completely rotted out and several cracks were forming between the
weak spots. It definitely needed to be replaced.
.other stuff snipped


Like I said in my other post (and Doug is in the middle of this), the
wrench has the ticket, the risk, and the decision. What is "legal" does
not matter. What the guy will actually agree to and do is what matters.

That said, if you have any doubt about what is possible with a "repair",
go no further than Dawley exhaust. They take 1 small original baffle
plate (or other usable component) from your muffler, and "overhaul" it.
Actually, they manufacture an entire new muffler around your original
piece. Been doing it for years. Will likely be doing it for years to come.

I think folks are trying to convince the original poster that it is
legal, possible, and safe to do a like "repair" on a battery box. The
poster is trying to convince the group that he and/or his wrench are not
willing to do this.

No right or wrong answer in either case I think.

Ah... diversity.

Good Luck,
Mike

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

He could craft you a replacement part that would better than original
for far less than $700. And it would be perfectly legal.

A friends AP/IA just patched his C150's with fiberglass, inplace...

The battery box is rivited to the firewall, a real headache to remove for
repair...

Interested reading:

OPP Article from AMT
http://www.amtonline.com/publication...ubId=1&id=1257

Draft AC addressing requirements of mechanic produced parts
http://forums.aopa.org/attachment.ph...8&d=1142199821

Jim

On Mar 10, 8:09 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
...you're actually glad to get the news that a battery box will cost you
ONLY $700.

I remember getting the estimate for a stall indicator switch for my
old Warrior, and just about dying when I heard it was $1300! We took
it apart and discovered that it was a simple five dollar Rat Shack
switch.

We ended up finding a "serviceable" used certified part for "only"
$375. I thought I'd won the lottery! :-)

Those switches often use an industrial microswitch. They
quit because dust or water or soap or airplane polish gets into them
and fouls the contacts. Take the microswitch off, immerse it in laquer
thinner or brake & parts cleaner, work it a few times while wet, and
blow it out. Really good chance it will work just fine.

Dan

On 3/11/07 00:56, "150flivver" wrote:

Technically, an A&P cannot manufacture a replacement part such as an
entire battery box.

Sorry if this has been mentioned already in this long thread, but the A&P
_can_ manufacture an "owner produced part". The rule for the OPP don't
require the owner to perform the actual fabrication. He/she can meet the
rule while having the A&P bend the metal. (In my case, I'd prefer that the
A&P did the actual work!)

- Don
The sky does not misunderstand.
The sky does not judge.
The sky, very simply, is.
"There's always the sky" - Richard Bach

No right or wrong answer in either case I think.

Ah... diversity.

You call it diversity -- I call it a rip-off.

A&Ps who charge $700 for a battery box -- rather than "take the
risk" (gimme a break!) of doing some simple sheet metal work -- are a
root cause of why general aviation as we have known it is dying.

Luckily there are still plenty of A&Ps out there who are ready,
willing and able to do this sort of work at a reasonable cost.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
(Presently in Memphis, TN)
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"