Pop-up IFR from Clearance Delivery

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

I should know better than to answer one of your "questions". But
my answer is: In order to take off into IMC.


If you're on the ground you're not looking for a pop-up.



Ok, I'd like to learn something from this...

When you call ATC to get a clearance...

....if you're in the air and you've filed through FSS, when you call ATC, its
not a pop-up.
....if you're in the air but not already filed through FSS, it's considered a
"pop-up"
....if you're not in the air and not already filed through FSS, it's not
considered a "pop-up"? Is there a different name you call it?

I see that "pop-up" is not in the PC/G. I assume that it's also not defined
in 7110. That being the case we're talking about an informal term anyway.
I'm just curious (and surprised) that a call from the ramp to CD for an IFR
clearance (not already on file) is NOT considered by controllers a "pop-up".

Thanks,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...

"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

As was the original poster, in the material you clipped.


Better read it again. He's airborne.



Not the way I read it:

"Can Clearance Delivery (through an RCO on the ground) give a pop-up
IFR instead of Approach? So far I have found that they ask me to call
Approach when airborne, or file with FSS."

Andrew, could you clarify whether you meant you were referring to calling
the CD RCO from the ramp, or from the air?

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
om...
Let me clarify the question. On a VFR training flight, we encountered
unforecasted ceilings of about 1500'. So we landed at a nearby
uncontrolled airport. There is no RCO to FSS. In order to call FSS we
would have to taxi to the ramp, shutdown and find a telephone. But
there was a remote communication outlet to the nearby class C
clearance delivery. So we decided to call them instead. They asked me
to file with FSS or call them (Approach) when airborne. So we departed
VFR and got our clearance. My question is, why could't the clearance
delivery guy give us the same clearance? I realize that the proper
procedure is to file with FSS, but what prevents CD from giving a
pop-up clearance?

I know that it is possible for CD to give an IFR clearance (even without the
flight plan already on file). I think Steve may be saying that in such a
scenario, they don't refer to it as a "pop-up", because you're not actually
in flight at the time. But I know that other pilots I talk to would refer
to it as a pop-up just like you did. And I don't think "pop-up" is an
official term anyway.

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

"John Clonts" wrote:
I see that "pop-up" is not in the PC/G. I assume that it's also not defined
in 7110. That being the case we're talking about an informal term anyway.
I'm just curious (and surprised) that a call from the ramp to CD for an IFR
clearance (not already on file) is NOT considered by controllers a "pop-up".

If you're wondering how there can be a ****ing contest over the
definition of an informal term, you obviously havin't been hanging
around these newsgroups too long :-)

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
"John Clonts" wrote:
I see that "pop-up" is not in the PC/G. I assume that it's also not
defined
in 7110. That being the case we're talking about an informal term
anyway.
I'm just curious (and surprised) that a call from the ramp to CD for an
IFR
clearance (not already on file) is NOT considered by controllers a
"pop-up".

If you're wondering how there can be a ****ing contest over the
definition of an informal term, you obviously havin't been hanging
around these newsgroups too long :-)

Sure wasn't wondering that at all... just seeking to understand, and to be
understood!

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
om...

Let me clarify the question. On a VFR training flight, we encountered
unforecasted ceilings of about 1500'. So we landed at a nearby
uncontrolled airport. There is no RCO to FSS. In order to call FSS we
would have to taxi to the ramp, shutdown and find a telephone. But
there was a remote communication outlet to the nearby class C
clearance delivery. So we decided to call them instead. They asked me
to file with FSS or call them (Approach) when airborne. So we departed
VFR and got our clearance. My question is, why could't the clearance
delivery guy give us the same clearance?


They could, they chose not to.



I realize that the proper
procedure is to file with FSS, but what prevents CD from giving a
pop-up clearance?


Nothing.

"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

Ok, I'd like to learn something from this...

When you call ATC to get a clearance...

...if you're in the air and you've filed through FSS, when you call ATC,
its
not a pop-up.
...if you're in the air but not already filed through FSS, it's considered
a
"pop-up"
...if you're not in the air and not already filed through FSS, it's not
considered a "pop-up"? Is there a different name you call it?

I see that "pop-up" is not in the PC/G. I assume that it's also not
defined
in 7110. That being the case we're talking about an informal term anyway.
I'm just curious (and surprised) that a call from the ramp to CD for an
IFR
clearance (not already on file) is NOT considered by controllers a
"pop-up".


"Pop-up" is not defined anywhere. It's my observation, from context, that
most pilots consider a pop-up to be any airborne pickup of an IFR clearance.
I share that opinion.

"John Clonts" wrote in message
news

Not the way I read it:

"Can Clearance Delivery (through an RCO on the ground) give a pop-up
IFR instead of Approach? So far I have found that they ask me to call
Approach when airborne, or file with FSS."


How can you read "...ask me to call Approach when airborne..." to mean on
the ground?

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
Let me clarify the question. On a VFR training flight, we encountered
unforecasted ceilings of about 1500'. So we landed at a nearby
uncontrolled airport. There is no RCO to FSS. In order to call FSS we
would have to taxi to the ramp, shutdown and find a telephone. But
there was a remote communication outlet to the nearby class C
clearance delivery. So we decided to call them instead. They asked me
to file with FSS or call them (Approach) when airborne. So we departed
VFR and got our clearance. My question is, why could't the clearance
delivery guy give us the same clearance? I realize that the proper
procedure is to file with FSS, but what prevents CD from giving a
pop-up clearance?

The same thing that prevents ground control from giving you a takeoff
clearance. He could but he is not responsible for that position.
That's why FSS says "ATC clears..." when they relay a clearance to you.
That's how you know that it wasn't FSS that actually made up the
clearance.

John Clonts wrote:


When you call ATC to get a clearance...

...if you're in the air and you've filed through FSS, when you call ATC, its
not a pop-up.

You're picking nits. Some would call that a pop up some wouldn't.


...if you're not in the air and not already filed through FSS, it's not
considered a "pop-up"? Is there a different name you call it?

Yeah, a pain in the ass.