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On Topic
Is it possible to get a pilot topic going here? For all the criticism of
this guy Max--, the simulation pilot here, at least his posts relate to aviation, however synthetic. How about we try this, just maybe to get some on topic comments. Today, maybe tail-draggers have no legitimate redeeming value, except for bush piloting, since virtually everyone flies from tarmac to tarmac. But still, lack of the skill eliminates some planes from the pilots options. The Citabra, the 170's, 180's, or the smell of dope and gas in an old Champ. The principal difficulty is in a tricycle, once all three wheels are down solid, you are done except steering it down the runway. In a tail dragger, relax and it will swap ends, with devistating results. In my formative years, I flew safety valve for any number of licensed pilots trying to transition from try- to tail draggers. A few picked it up with a dozen or so landings, and a very few never got the hang. Most took about 3-6 hours to gain competence. To go from tail dragger to tri-gear normally took about two landings. Compare this to 7-9 hours of dual for the beginning pilot in eithor type. To me, the hardest thing to master before soloing was the rudder work required to land a tail dragger. Does this suggest that training should begin in a tail dragger? Would it be worth the extra effort? Or is the entire topic outdated? |
#2
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On Topic
On May 10, 3:06*pm, "birdog" wrote:
Is it possible to get a pilot topic going here? For all the criticism of this guy Max--, the simulation pilot here, at least his posts relate to aviation, however synthetic. How about we try this, just maybe to get some on topic comments. Today, maybe tail-draggers have no legitimate redeeming value, except for bush piloting, since virtually everyone flies from tarmac to tarmac. But still, lack of the skill eliminates some planes from the pilots options. The Citabra, the 170's, 180's, or the smell of dope and gas in an old Champ. The principal difficulty is in a tricycle, once all three wheels are down solid, you are done except steering it down the runway. In a tail dragger, relax and it will swap ends, with devistating results. In my formative years, I flew safety valve for any number of licensed pilots trying to transition from try- to tail draggers. A few picked it up with a dozen or so landings, and a very few never got the hang. Most took about 3-6 hours to gain competence. To go from tail dragger to tri-gear normally took about two landings. Compare this to 7-9 hours of dual for the beginning pilot in eithor type. To me, the hardest thing to master before soloing was the rudder work required to land a tail dragger. Does this suggest that training should begin in a tail dragger? Would it be worth the extra effort? Or is the entire topic outdated? The topic certainly isn't outdated, expecially for the Vans RV enthusiasts. My first few flights were in a J-3 tail dragger, and now I'd like to go back to the tail wheel in an RV-6, or even a MySky MS-1 painted in nostaglic retro to resemble a spitfire. --- Mark |
#3
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On Topic
On May 10, 3:06*pm, "birdog" wrote:
Is it possible to get a pilot topic going here? For all the criticism of this guy Max--, the simulation pilot here, at least his posts relate to aviation, however synthetic. How about we try this, just maybe to get some on topic comments. Today, maybe tail-draggers have no legitimate redeeming value, except for bush piloting, since virtually everyone flies from tarmac to tarmac. But still, lack of the skill eliminates some planes from the pilots options. The Citabra, the 170's, 180's, or the smell of dope and gas in an old Champ. The principal difficulty is in a tricycle, once all three wheels are down solid, you are done except steering it down the runway. In a tail dragger, relax and it will swap ends, with devistating results. In my formative years, I flew safety valve for any number of licensed pilots trying to transition from try- to tail draggers. A few picked it up with a dozen or so landings, and a very few never got the hang. Most took about 3-6 hours to gain competence. To go from tail dragger to tri-gear normally took about two landings. Compare this to 7-9 hours of dual for the beginning pilot in eithor type. To me, the hardest thing to master before soloing was the rudder work required to land a tail dragger. Does this suggest that training should begin in a tail dragger? Would it be worth the extra effort? Or is the entire topic outdated? I saw one like this yesterday parked out back, except it was blue and white, real sharp. http://www.airliners.net/photo/Van's-RV-6/1577100/M/ --- Mark |
#4
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On Topic
birdog writes:
Does this suggest that training should begin in a tail dragger? Would it be worth the extra effort? Or is the entire topic outdated? Tail draggers are rare because of the extra skill they require. Starting training in them would serve little purpose, since the average pilot would never again have to use those tail-dragger skills. Over time, some things are best relegated to history and to niche markets. I think the trend in the future will be towards less and less time spent training in aircraft different from those that a person intends to pilot. Airline pilots will train entirely in simulation, and their first flight in a real aircraft will be their first revenue flight. This is already possible for some types of training and certification, but not (yet) for ab initio training. |
#5
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On Topic
On May 10, 3:06*pm, "birdog" wrote:
Is it possible to get a pilot topic going here? Sorry birdog. I'm putting a lock on my computer so these people that come over to my house can't get online and come to my groups. From now on it will just be me using this computer. --- Mark |
#6
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Mxsmanic wrote:
birdog writes: Does this suggest that training should begin in a tail dragger? Would it be worth the extra effort? Or is the entire topic outdated? Tail draggers are rare because of the extra skill they require. Tail draggers were starting to become somewhat rare because most makers stopped making them. This has turned around, e.g, various versions of the Cub and the Champ are back in production. The "extra skill they require" is a few hours of training. For certain types of flying, tail draggers are the best choice. I think the trend in the future will be towards less and less time spent training in aircraft different from those that a person intends to pilot. Nope, most pilots will continue to train in something inexpensive and transition to something else later. Do you think the Air Force is going to do primary training in F-22's and scrap all the trainers? Airline pilots will train entirely in simulation, and their first flight in a real aircraft will be their first revenue flight. This is never going to happen. Keep deluding yourself. This is already possible for some types of training and certification, but not (yet) for ab initio training. Yeah, for a type rating for a similar airplane. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#7
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#8
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On Topic
"birdog" wrote:
Today, maybe tail-draggers have no legitimate redeeming value, except for bush piloting, since virtually everyone flies from tarmac to tarmac. Perhaps one other possible redeeming value might be in emergency landings on unknown surfaces. I've read accident reports where there were fatalities when the nose wheel of a plane dug in and the plane flipped. I'm also curious to know if anyone can give first-hand information on whether landing on skis or floats is more like landing on conventional gear or tricycle gear? For several reasons I've assumed that it is more like landing on tricycle gear, but maybe that is incorrect. |
#9
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On Topic
Mxsmanic wrote:
writes: Tail draggers were starting to become somewhat rare because most makers stopped making them. Why did they stop making them? Why did they stop making cars with tail fins? Nose gear airplanes became the fashion for GA, with a small number of tail dragger enthusiasts. Tail draggers are making a resurgance because of the nostalgia, they tend to be cheaper to make (and thus sell), and there are situations where a nose wheel is not really desirable to have. Nope, most pilots will continue to train in something inexpensive and transition to something else later. I was thinking mainly of people training for piloting as a career, where financial limitations are less of a factor. Financial limitations are always a factor in everything in real life. Do you think the Air Force is going to do primary training in F-22's and scrap all the trainers? For transport pilots, I don't think they will use F-22s at all. Non sequitur. Do you think the Air Force is going to do primary training in anything other than cheap (by comparison) primary trainers? This is never going to happen. Keep deluding yourself. Wait and see. It will happen first in the Third World. Nope, because such pilots wouldn't be allowed to fly out of the third world and real simulators that accurately simulate actual flight cost more than primary trainers. Yeah, for a type rating for a similar airplane. That wasn't possible before, and now it is. More changes along these lines will occur in the future. Yeah, computers were invented making it possible to build a simulator. And, FYI, the FAA has been talking about increasing the flight time requirements for pilots flying paying customers, not decreasing them or using simulation. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#10
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On Topic
"birdog" wrote in message
... Is it possible to get a pilot topic going here? For all the criticism of this guy Max--, the simulation pilot here, at least his posts relate to aviation, however synthetic. How about we try this, just maybe to get some on topic comments. Today, maybe tail-draggers have no legitimate redeeming value, except for bush piloting, since virtually everyone flies from tarmac to tarmac. But still, lack of the skill eliminates some planes from the pilots options. The Citabra, the 170's, 180's, or the smell of dope and gas in an old Champ. The principal difficulty is in a tricycle, once all three wheels are down solid, you are done except steering it down the runway. In a tail dragger, relax and it will swap ends, with devistating results. In my formative years, I flew safety valve for any number of licensed pilots trying to transition from try- to tail draggers. A few picked it up with a dozen or so landings, and a very few never got the hang. Most took about 3-6 hours to gain competence. To go from tail dragger to tri-gear normally took about two landings. Compare this to 7-9 hours of dual for the beginning pilot in eithor type. To me, the hardest thing to master before soloing was the rudder work required to land a tail dragger. Does this suggest that training should begin in a tail dragger? Would it be worth the extra effort? Or is the entire topic outdated? Well, I found it pretty easy to start out in a taildragger - it just seems to be a big problem from those transitioning from a nosewheel. I suspect that it's the transition pilots that drive the insurance claims up which drives the insurance companies to discourage using them for training. Self fulfilling prophecy, eh? Personally, I found the flexibility of a taildragger convenient even when 98% of the time I landed on pavement. You can't do wheel landings with tricycle gear. -- Geoff (making a trip to look at a taildragger tomorrow) Thorpe The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate. |
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