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DG "service contract" revisited



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 21st 11, 11:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Lars Peder Hansen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default DG "service contract" revisited

Finally, someone is taking legal action against DG Flugzeugbau.

Those who understand German can follow the Nordrhein-Westfalen chapter of
the German Aeroclub he http://www.aeroclub-nrw.de/htmd/01h-aktuelles.htm



On a related note, the EASA continues to sabotage DG's effort to force us to
sign contracts, in order to obtain new manuals. The updated Type Certificate
Data Sheets for LS gliders clearly state that you can use the old OR the new
(May 2011) manuals.

http://easa.europa.eu/certification/...S_Sailplanes-0



Also, DG tries to force you to pay for the contract in all the years from
2009 if you need a service in, say, 2016. Apart from being extremely
questionable from a legal standpoint, this raises the question: Why should
anyone pay for a yearly contract with DG at all, then? It is much better to
put an equivalent sum into your own savings account, so you are able to pay
ransom money if ever needed. Meanwhile, the interest you earn on your own
money may buy you a Flarm, or enable you to take the wife / girlfriend (or
both) out for an evening in town.



Happy soaring,

Lars Peder



Replace numbers with post1.tele.dk to answer by email



  #2  
Old October 21st 11, 01:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andrew Warbrick[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default DG

At 10:55 21 October 2011, Lars Peder Hansen wrote:
Finally, someone is taking legal action against DG Flugzeugbau.

Those who understand German can follow the Nordrhein-Westfalen chapter of


the German Aeroclub he

http://www.aeroclub-nrw.de/htmd/01h-aktuelles.htm



On a related note, the EASA continues to sabotage DG's effort to force us
to
sign contracts, in order to obtain new manuals. The updated Type
Certificate
Data Sheets for LS gliders clearly state that you can use the old OR the
new
(May 2011) manuals.

http://easa.europa.eu/certification/...S_Sailplanes-0



Also, DG tries to force you to pay for the contract in all the years from


2009 if you need a service in, say, 2016. Apart from being extremely
questionable from a legal standpoint, this raises the question: Why should


anyone pay for a yearly contract with DG at all, then? It is much better

to

put an equivalent sum into your own savings account, so you are able to

pay

ransom money if ever needed. Meanwhile, the interest you earn on your own


money may buy you a Flarm, or enable you to take the wife / girlfriend (or


both) out for an evening in town.



Happy soaring,

Lars Peder



Replace numbers with post1.tele.dk to answer by email





I don't think EASA had much option but to include all the old flight and
service manuals in the TCDS. DG are serial numbering the new manuals to
each individual glider to discourage copying or lending. Surely that means
that if DG haven't provided a "new" manaul for your glider then the
original manual is the latest one available for your individual glider
because there is no "new" manual with your exact serial number.

Of course if DG have created a serial numbered manual for your glider then
they are breaking the law (specifically EC regulation 2042/2003) by not
"making available" the "updated" manauls to the aircraft owner/operator.

  #3  
Old October 21st 11, 01:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Lars Peder Hansen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default DG

They try to make it look like the manual is tied to the individual glider,
by creating a front page with the ac. serial number and some kind of
internal DG checksum. As we all know this is against regulations.
Our local National Aviation Authority in Denmark require the new manuals
used in maintenance programs, but they specifically state that it does not
need to be tied to any specific ac, and that owners "are not required to be
part af a subscription program of any kind". I guess that is the closest
they can come to saying "copy away, folks!" ;-)

Lars Peder


"Andrew Warbrick" wrote in message
.com...
At 10:55 21 October 2011, Lars Peder Hansen wrote:
Finally, someone is taking legal action against DG Flugzeugbau.

Those who understand German can follow the Nordrhein-Westfalen chapter of


the German Aeroclub he

http://www.aeroclub-nrw.de/htmd/01h-aktuelles.htm



On a related note, the EASA continues to sabotage DG's effort to force us
to
sign contracts, in order to obtain new manuals. The updated Type
Certificate
Data Sheets for LS gliders clearly state that you can use the old OR the
new
(May 2011) manuals.

http://easa.europa.eu/certification/...S_Sailplanes-0



Also, DG tries to force you to pay for the contract in all the years from


2009 if you need a service in, say, 2016. Apart from being extremely
questionable from a legal standpoint, this raises the question: Why should


anyone pay for a yearly contract with DG at all, then? It is much better

to

put an equivalent sum into your own savings account, so you are able to

pay

ransom money if ever needed. Meanwhile, the interest you earn on your own


money may buy you a Flarm, or enable you to take the wife / girlfriend (or


both) out for an evening in town.



Happy soaring,

Lars Peder



Replace numbers with post1.tele.dk to answer by email





I don't think EASA had much option but to include all the old flight and
service manuals in the TCDS. DG are serial numbering the new manuals to
each individual glider to discourage copying or lending. Surely that means
that if DG haven't provided a "new" manaul for your glider then the
original manual is the latest one available for your individual glider
because there is no "new" manual with your exact serial number.

Of course if DG have created a serial numbered manual for your glider then
they are breaking the law (specifically EC regulation 2042/2003) by not
"making available" the "updated" manauls to the aircraft owner/operator.



  #4  
Old October 21st 11, 01:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jcarlyle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 522
Default DG "service contract" revisited

DG has another distasteful business practice that isn't well known,
yet. If you sign up for the service contract, they will automatically
(without even asking you in advance) charge your credit card for
subsequent years. Guess how I know?

-John

On Oct 21, 6:55 am, "Lars Peder Hansen"
wrote:
Finally, someone is taking legal action against DG Flugzeugbau.

Those who understand German can follow the Nordrhein-Westfalen chapter of
the German Aeroclub hehttp://www.aeroclub-nrw.de/htmd/01h-aktuelles.htm

On a related note, the EASA continues to sabotage DG's effort to force us to
sign contracts, in order to obtain new manuals. The updated Type Certificate
Data Sheets for LS gliders clearly state that you can use the old OR the new
(May 2011) manuals.

http://easa.europa.eu/certification/...ocs/aircrafts/...

Also, DG tries to force you to pay for the contract in all the years from
2009 if you need a service in, say, 2016. Apart from being extremely
questionable from a legal standpoint, this raises the question: Why should
anyone pay for a yearly contract with DG at all, then? It is much better to
put an equivalent sum into your own savings account, so you are able to pay
ransom money if ever needed. Meanwhile, the interest you earn on your own
money may buy you a Flarm, or enable you to take the wife / girlfriend (or
both) out for an evening in town.

Happy soaring,

Lars Peder

Replace numbers with post1.tele.dk to answer by email


  #5  
Old October 21st 11, 02:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
ContestID67[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 202
Default DG "service contract" revisited

I live in fear that one day I will need some semi-trivial inexpensive
part (i.e. springs in the airbrakes) for my glider and have to pay the
"DG-ransom" to obtain said part, back dated to time immemorial.

On top of that my glider has a Standard Airworthiness Certificate
(rather than Experimental*) which limits what I can do to replace that
semi-trivial inexpensive part. Any thoughts on conversion from
Standard to Experimental? Does that help me in any way? Or is there
a downside such as lowering the resale value?

Thanks, John

* I own a DG-101G ELAN. If you look at
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...DG-10&PageNo=1
you will find that it is about 50/50 if any particular DG-10X is
Standard or Experimental certified. Was it common practice back in
the 80's to pick/choose Standard versus Experimental? What was the
rational when choosing one over the other? It seems that many/most
newer gliders are Experimental. So I ask again, would it help me to
reclassify my ship as Experimental? If so, how complicated is it to
make the change?
  #6  
Old October 21st 11, 02:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
bish
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default DG "service contract" revisited

On 21 oct, 08:44, jcarlyle wrote:
DG has another distasteful business practice that isn't well known,
yet. If you sign up for the service contract, they will automatically
(without even asking you in advance) charge your credit card for
subsequent years. Guess how I know?

-John

On Oct 21, 6:55 am, "Lars Peder Hansen"
wrote:



Finally, someone is taking legal action against DG Flugzeugbau.


Those who understand German can follow the Nordrhein-Westfalen chapter of
the German Aeroclub hehttp://www.aeroclub-nrw.de/htmd/01h-aktuelles.htm


On a related note, the EASA continues to sabotage DG's effort to force us to
sign contracts, in order to obtain new manuals. The updated Type Certificate
Data Sheets for LS gliders clearly state that you can use the old OR the new
(May 2011) manuals.


http://easa.europa.eu/certification/...ocs/aircrafts/...


Also, DG tries to force you to pay for the contract in all the years from
2009 if you need a service in, say, 2016. Apart from being extremely
questionable from a legal standpoint, this raises the question: Why should
anyone pay for a yearly contract with DG at all, then? It is much better to
put an equivalent sum into your own savings account, so you are able to pay
ransom money if ever needed. Meanwhile, the interest you earn on your own
money may buy you a Flarm, or enable you to take the wife / girlfriend (or
both) out for an evening in town.


Happy soaring,


Lars Peder


Replace numbers with post1.tele.dk to answer by email- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -


- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -


DG gives you 3 days to refuse to pay then it charge you automatically.
This is illegal in Canada.
S6
  #7  
Old October 21st 11, 03:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
bish
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default DG "service contract" revisited

On 21 oct, 09:48, ContestID67 wrote:
I live in fear that one day I will need some semi-trivial inexpensive
part (i.e. springs in the airbrakes) for my glider and have to pay the
"DG-ransom" to obtain said part, back dated to time immemorial.

On top of that my glider has a Standard Airworthiness Certificate
(rather than Experimental*) which limits what I can do to replace that
semi-trivial inexpensive part. *Any thoughts on conversion from
Standard to Experimental? *Does that help me in any way? *Or is there
a downside such as lowering the resale value?

Thanks, John

* I own a DG-101G ELAN. *If you look athttp://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/AcftRef_Results.aspx?Mfrtxt=&...
you will find that it is about 50/50 if any particular DG-10X is
Standard or Experimental certified. *Was it common practice back in
the 80's to pick/choose Standard versus Experimental? *What was the
rational when choosing one over the other? * It seems that many/most
newer gliders are Experimental. *So I ask again, would it help me to
reclassify my ship as Experimental? *If so, how complicated is it to
make the change?


Last year I needed 2 part that cost 45 euros. They charge me 100
euros s/h and 245 euros for the annual contract.
400 euros for 2 rubber tube for my landing gear.
S6
  #8  
Old October 21st 11, 03:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default DG "service contract" revisited

Random comments to the above messages:

With Photo Shop, I can copy a page and insert my serial number.

Most folks I've talked to, regard Experimental as better than Standard as it
allows us to do a lot more things with our aircraft. I don't think it has
any effect on value, besides, these things are NOT an investment, they're
expensive toys.

I really wanted another (3rd) LS-6, but this crap convinced me to move on.
I'm now enjoying my LAK-17a...

Screw DG and all their horses.


"bish" wrote in message
...
On 21 oct, 08:44, jcarlyle wrote:
DG has another distasteful business practice that isn't well known,
yet. If you sign up for the service contract, they will automatically
(without even asking you in advance) charge your credit card for
subsequent years. Guess how I know?

-John

On Oct 21, 6:55 am, "Lars Peder Hansen"
wrote:



Finally, someone is taking legal action against DG Flugzeugbau.


Those who understand German can follow the Nordrhein-Westfalen chapter
of
the German Aeroclub
hehttp://www.aeroclub-nrw.de/htmd/01h-aktuelles.htm


On a related note, the EASA continues to sabotage DG's effort to force
us to
sign contracts, in order to obtain new manuals. The updated Type
Certificate
Data Sheets for LS gliders clearly state that you can use the old OR the
new
(May 2011) manuals.


http://easa.europa.eu/certification/...ocs/aircrafts/...


Also, DG tries to force you to pay for the contract in all the years
from
2009 if you need a service in, say, 2016. Apart from being extremely
questionable from a legal standpoint, this raises the question: Why
should
anyone pay for a yearly contract with DG at all, then? It is much better
to
put an equivalent sum into your own savings account, so you are able to
pay
ransom money if ever needed. Meanwhile, the interest you earn on your
own
money may buy you a Flarm, or enable you to take the wife / girlfriend
(or
both) out for an evening in town.


Happy soaring,


Lars Peder


Replace numbers with post1.tele.dk to answer by email- Masquer le texte
des messages précédents -


- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -


DG gives you 3 days to refuse to pay then it charge you automatically.
This is illegal in Canada.
S6

  #9  
Old October 21st 11, 03:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jcarlyle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 522
Default DG "service contract" revisited

It might be different in Canada than in the US. How is DG's "3 days to
pay" notification sent?

I never received anything by post or e-mail, the charge just appeared
on my credit card at the end of the month. A DG rep confirmed that DG
was renewing automatically without notification.

-John

On Oct 21, 9:58 am, bish wrote:
DG gives you 3 days to refuse to pay then it charge you automatically.
This is illegal in Canada.
S6


  #10  
Old October 21st 11, 04:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jcarlyle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 522
Default DG "service contract" revisited

John,

Going from Standard to Experimental for my old ASW-19 was very simple.
I needed to fill out an 8130-6 form, write a program letter, and then
have the FSDO rep check the actual airframe for serial number match
and display of the Experimental placard. It did not affect the resale
value in the slightest. The ease of the process might depend on your
FSDO, though.

As Dan said above, having an Experimental airworthiness allows us to
do more with our aircraft. That's why my LS8 is Experimental, even
though it's eligible to be Standard.

-John

On Oct 21, 9:48 am, ContestID67 wrote:
I live in fear that one day I will need some semi-trivial inexpensive
part (i.e. springs in the airbrakes) for my glider and have to pay the
"DG-ransom" to obtain said part, back dated to time immemorial.

On top of that my glider has a Standard Airworthiness Certificate
(rather than Experimental*) which limits what I can do to replace that
semi-trivial inexpensive part. Any thoughts on conversion from
Standard to Experimental? Does that help me in any way? Or is there
a downside such as lowering the resale value?

Thanks, John

 




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