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DG "service contract" revisited
Finally, someone is taking legal action against DG Flugzeugbau.
Those who understand German can follow the Nordrhein-Westfalen chapter of the German Aeroclub he http://www.aeroclub-nrw.de/htmd/01h-aktuelles.htm On a related note, the EASA continues to sabotage DG's effort to force us to sign contracts, in order to obtain new manuals. The updated Type Certificate Data Sheets for LS gliders clearly state that you can use the old OR the new (May 2011) manuals. http://easa.europa.eu/certification/...S_Sailplanes-0 Also, DG tries to force you to pay for the contract in all the years from 2009 if you need a service in, say, 2016. Apart from being extremely questionable from a legal standpoint, this raises the question: Why should anyone pay for a yearly contract with DG at all, then? It is much better to put an equivalent sum into your own savings account, so you are able to pay ransom money if ever needed. Meanwhile, the interest you earn on your own money may buy you a Flarm, or enable you to take the wife / girlfriend (or both) out for an evening in town. Happy soaring, Lars Peder Replace numbers with post1.tele.dk to answer by email |
#2
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DG
At 10:55 21 October 2011, Lars Peder Hansen wrote:
Finally, someone is taking legal action against DG Flugzeugbau. Those who understand German can follow the Nordrhein-Westfalen chapter of the German Aeroclub he http://www.aeroclub-nrw.de/htmd/01h-aktuelles.htm On a related note, the EASA continues to sabotage DG's effort to force us to sign contracts, in order to obtain new manuals. The updated Type Certificate Data Sheets for LS gliders clearly state that you can use the old OR the new (May 2011) manuals. http://easa.europa.eu/certification/...S_Sailplanes-0 Also, DG tries to force you to pay for the contract in all the years from 2009 if you need a service in, say, 2016. Apart from being extremely questionable from a legal standpoint, this raises the question: Why should anyone pay for a yearly contract with DG at all, then? It is much better to put an equivalent sum into your own savings account, so you are able to pay ransom money if ever needed. Meanwhile, the interest you earn on your own money may buy you a Flarm, or enable you to take the wife / girlfriend (or both) out for an evening in town. Happy soaring, Lars Peder Replace numbers with post1.tele.dk to answer by email I don't think EASA had much option but to include all the old flight and service manuals in the TCDS. DG are serial numbering the new manuals to each individual glider to discourage copying or lending. Surely that means that if DG haven't provided a "new" manaul for your glider then the original manual is the latest one available for your individual glider because there is no "new" manual with your exact serial number. Of course if DG have created a serial numbered manual for your glider then they are breaking the law (specifically EC regulation 2042/2003) by not "making available" the "updated" manauls to the aircraft owner/operator. |
#3
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DG
They try to make it look like the manual is tied to the individual glider,
by creating a front page with the ac. serial number and some kind of internal DG checksum. As we all know this is against regulations. Our local National Aviation Authority in Denmark require the new manuals used in maintenance programs, but they specifically state that it does not need to be tied to any specific ac, and that owners "are not required to be part af a subscription program of any kind". I guess that is the closest they can come to saying "copy away, folks!" ;-) Lars Peder "Andrew Warbrick" wrote in message .com... At 10:55 21 October 2011, Lars Peder Hansen wrote: Finally, someone is taking legal action against DG Flugzeugbau. Those who understand German can follow the Nordrhein-Westfalen chapter of the German Aeroclub he http://www.aeroclub-nrw.de/htmd/01h-aktuelles.htm On a related note, the EASA continues to sabotage DG's effort to force us to sign contracts, in order to obtain new manuals. The updated Type Certificate Data Sheets for LS gliders clearly state that you can use the old OR the new (May 2011) manuals. http://easa.europa.eu/certification/...S_Sailplanes-0 Also, DG tries to force you to pay for the contract in all the years from 2009 if you need a service in, say, 2016. Apart from being extremely questionable from a legal standpoint, this raises the question: Why should anyone pay for a yearly contract with DG at all, then? It is much better to put an equivalent sum into your own savings account, so you are able to pay ransom money if ever needed. Meanwhile, the interest you earn on your own money may buy you a Flarm, or enable you to take the wife / girlfriend (or both) out for an evening in town. Happy soaring, Lars Peder Replace numbers with post1.tele.dk to answer by email I don't think EASA had much option but to include all the old flight and service manuals in the TCDS. DG are serial numbering the new manuals to each individual glider to discourage copying or lending. Surely that means that if DG haven't provided a "new" manaul for your glider then the original manual is the latest one available for your individual glider because there is no "new" manual with your exact serial number. Of course if DG have created a serial numbered manual for your glider then they are breaking the law (specifically EC regulation 2042/2003) by not "making available" the "updated" manauls to the aircraft owner/operator. |
#4
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DG "service contract" revisited
DG has another distasteful business practice that isn't well known,
yet. If you sign up for the service contract, they will automatically (without even asking you in advance) charge your credit card for subsequent years. Guess how I know? -John On Oct 21, 6:55 am, "Lars Peder Hansen" wrote: Finally, someone is taking legal action against DG Flugzeugbau. Those who understand German can follow the Nordrhein-Westfalen chapter of the German Aeroclub hehttp://www.aeroclub-nrw.de/htmd/01h-aktuelles.htm On a related note, the EASA continues to sabotage DG's effort to force us to sign contracts, in order to obtain new manuals. The updated Type Certificate Data Sheets for LS gliders clearly state that you can use the old OR the new (May 2011) manuals. http://easa.europa.eu/certification/...ocs/aircrafts/... Also, DG tries to force you to pay for the contract in all the years from 2009 if you need a service in, say, 2016. Apart from being extremely questionable from a legal standpoint, this raises the question: Why should anyone pay for a yearly contract with DG at all, then? It is much better to put an equivalent sum into your own savings account, so you are able to pay ransom money if ever needed. Meanwhile, the interest you earn on your own money may buy you a Flarm, or enable you to take the wife / girlfriend (or both) out for an evening in town. Happy soaring, Lars Peder Replace numbers with post1.tele.dk to answer by email |
#5
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DG "service contract" revisited
I live in fear that one day I will need some semi-trivial inexpensive
part (i.e. springs in the airbrakes) for my glider and have to pay the "DG-ransom" to obtain said part, back dated to time immemorial. On top of that my glider has a Standard Airworthiness Certificate (rather than Experimental*) which limits what I can do to replace that semi-trivial inexpensive part. Any thoughts on conversion from Standard to Experimental? Does that help me in any way? Or is there a downside such as lowering the resale value? Thanks, John * I own a DG-101G ELAN. If you look at http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...DG-10&PageNo=1 you will find that it is about 50/50 if any particular DG-10X is Standard or Experimental certified. Was it common practice back in the 80's to pick/choose Standard versus Experimental? What was the rational when choosing one over the other? It seems that many/most newer gliders are Experimental. So I ask again, would it help me to reclassify my ship as Experimental? If so, how complicated is it to make the change? |
#6
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DG "service contract" revisited
On 21 oct, 08:44, jcarlyle wrote:
DG has another distasteful business practice that isn't well known, yet. If you sign up for the service contract, they will automatically (without even asking you in advance) charge your credit card for subsequent years. Guess how I know? -John On Oct 21, 6:55 am, "Lars Peder Hansen" wrote: Finally, someone is taking legal action against DG Flugzeugbau. Those who understand German can follow the Nordrhein-Westfalen chapter of the German Aeroclub hehttp://www.aeroclub-nrw.de/htmd/01h-aktuelles.htm On a related note, the EASA continues to sabotage DG's effort to force us to sign contracts, in order to obtain new manuals. The updated Type Certificate Data Sheets for LS gliders clearly state that you can use the old OR the new (May 2011) manuals. http://easa.europa.eu/certification/...ocs/aircrafts/... Also, DG tries to force you to pay for the contract in all the years from 2009 if you need a service in, say, 2016. Apart from being extremely questionable from a legal standpoint, this raises the question: Why should anyone pay for a yearly contract with DG at all, then? It is much better to put an equivalent sum into your own savings account, so you are able to pay ransom money if ever needed. Meanwhile, the interest you earn on your own money may buy you a Flarm, or enable you to take the wife / girlfriend (or both) out for an evening in town. Happy soaring, Lars Peder Replace numbers with post1.tele.dk to answer by email- Masquer le texte des messages précédents - - Afficher le texte des messages précédents - DG gives you 3 days to refuse to pay then it charge you automatically. This is illegal in Canada. S6 |
#7
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DG "service contract" revisited
On 21 oct, 09:48, ContestID67 wrote:
I live in fear that one day I will need some semi-trivial inexpensive part (i.e. springs in the airbrakes) for my glider and have to pay the "DG-ransom" to obtain said part, back dated to time immemorial. On top of that my glider has a Standard Airworthiness Certificate (rather than Experimental*) which limits what I can do to replace that semi-trivial inexpensive part. *Any thoughts on conversion from Standard to Experimental? *Does that help me in any way? *Or is there a downside such as lowering the resale value? Thanks, John * I own a DG-101G ELAN. *If you look athttp://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/AcftRef_Results.aspx?Mfrtxt=&... you will find that it is about 50/50 if any particular DG-10X is Standard or Experimental certified. *Was it common practice back in the 80's to pick/choose Standard versus Experimental? *What was the rational when choosing one over the other? * It seems that many/most newer gliders are Experimental. *So I ask again, would it help me to reclassify my ship as Experimental? *If so, how complicated is it to make the change? Last year I needed 2 part that cost 45 euros. They charge me 100 euros s/h and 245 euros for the annual contract. 400 euros for 2 rubber tube for my landing gear. S6 |
#8
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DG "service contract" revisited
Random comments to the above messages:
With Photo Shop, I can copy a page and insert my serial number. Most folks I've talked to, regard Experimental as better than Standard as it allows us to do a lot more things with our aircraft. I don't think it has any effect on value, besides, these things are NOT an investment, they're expensive toys. I really wanted another (3rd) LS-6, but this crap convinced me to move on. I'm now enjoying my LAK-17a... Screw DG and all their horses. "bish" wrote in message ... On 21 oct, 08:44, jcarlyle wrote: DG has another distasteful business practice that isn't well known, yet. If you sign up for the service contract, they will automatically (without even asking you in advance) charge your credit card for subsequent years. Guess how I know? -John On Oct 21, 6:55 am, "Lars Peder Hansen" wrote: Finally, someone is taking legal action against DG Flugzeugbau. Those who understand German can follow the Nordrhein-Westfalen chapter of the German Aeroclub hehttp://www.aeroclub-nrw.de/htmd/01h-aktuelles.htm On a related note, the EASA continues to sabotage DG's effort to force us to sign contracts, in order to obtain new manuals. The updated Type Certificate Data Sheets for LS gliders clearly state that you can use the old OR the new (May 2011) manuals. http://easa.europa.eu/certification/...ocs/aircrafts/... Also, DG tries to force you to pay for the contract in all the years from 2009 if you need a service in, say, 2016. Apart from being extremely questionable from a legal standpoint, this raises the question: Why should anyone pay for a yearly contract with DG at all, then? It is much better to put an equivalent sum into your own savings account, so you are able to pay ransom money if ever needed. Meanwhile, the interest you earn on your own money may buy you a Flarm, or enable you to take the wife / girlfriend (or both) out for an evening in town. Happy soaring, Lars Peder Replace numbers with post1.tele.dk to answer by email- Masquer le texte des messages précédents - - Afficher le texte des messages précédents - DG gives you 3 days to refuse to pay then it charge you automatically. This is illegal in Canada. S6 |
#9
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DG "service contract" revisited
It might be different in Canada than in the US. How is DG's "3 days to
pay" notification sent? I never received anything by post or e-mail, the charge just appeared on my credit card at the end of the month. A DG rep confirmed that DG was renewing automatically without notification. -John On Oct 21, 9:58 am, bish wrote: DG gives you 3 days to refuse to pay then it charge you automatically. This is illegal in Canada. S6 |
#10
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DG "service contract" revisited
John,
Going from Standard to Experimental for my old ASW-19 was very simple. I needed to fill out an 8130-6 form, write a program letter, and then have the FSDO rep check the actual airframe for serial number match and display of the Experimental placard. It did not affect the resale value in the slightest. The ease of the process might depend on your FSDO, though. As Dan said above, having an Experimental airworthiness allows us to do more with our aircraft. That's why my LS8 is Experimental, even though it's eligible to be Standard. -John On Oct 21, 9:48 am, ContestID67 wrote: I live in fear that one day I will need some semi-trivial inexpensive part (i.e. springs in the airbrakes) for my glider and have to pay the "DG-ransom" to obtain said part, back dated to time immemorial. On top of that my glider has a Standard Airworthiness Certificate (rather than Experimental*) which limits what I can do to replace that semi-trivial inexpensive part. Any thoughts on conversion from Standard to Experimental? Does that help me in any way? Or is there a downside such as lowering the resale value? Thanks, John |
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