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ASG-29/ASW-27 wing refinish
I have heard that the new ASG-29 and many of the ASW-27's have had a
noticeable spar cap shrinkage problem. I am looking for an unbiassed discussion of this problem, the extent of the problem and possible solutions (other than a wing refinish). |
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ASG-29/ASW-27 wing refinish
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ASG-29/ASW-27 wing refinish
One of the reasons I switched to Schemmp-Hirth from Schleicher was the
latter's recent problems with wings, especially the ASW-27, which was my intended new ship. I have several colleagues with ASW-27s of both old and newer production and they all have suffered from this problem to a greater or lesser degree. I know of a couple that have needed two refinishes since new, although this seems to be less common. I've seen ASW-27 wings that look really ugly and that are well beyond the point that performance is compromised. There is no solution other than to refinish the wings, unless you're happy to pay $100,000 plus for a ship that performs like an old ASW-20. The ASW-28 does not seem to have suffered from this problems from the few examples I have seen. I have no personal knowledge of the 29, but plenty of rumors, which I'll leave to others. Mike On Nov 2, 3:15 pm, wrote: I have heard that the new ASG-29 and many of the ASW-27's have had a noticeable spar cap shrinkage problem. I am looking for an unbiassed discussion of this problem, the extent of the problem and possible solutions (other than a wing refinish). |
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ASG-29/ASW-27 wing refinish
Mike the Strike wrote:
One of the reasons I switched to Schemmp-Hirth from Schleicher was the latter's recent problems with wings, especially the ASW-27, which was my intended new ship. Any thoughts on why this is happening? Based on my experience and that of others, the ASW 24 has one of the most stable composite wings around. I hope to get around to sanding mine this winter but it's still in great shape--even under the dial gauge--and it's nearly 15 years old. I'm told the '26 is similar. Yet the '27 and now the '29 are said to be much less so. Did changing to hard tanks from ballast bags trigger this? Different wing design? Different materials? Is it happening to every glider out there or just intermittantly? Chip Bearden ASW 24 "JB" |
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ASG-29/ASW-27 wing refinish
I know of '27s with waterbags that have had significant problems with this.
My '27 sn 27119 is the first production "B" model---I got it new in Dec 1999. It has flown mostly in contests with water and I have not flown it but 1 hr in the last year. Until then it had 249 hr. It has lived in my air conditioned basement in its trailer its whole life--certainly "archival storage". Last year I measured the wings--out of interest, after talking to other '27 owners. Mine measures 0.002" or less everywhere except one small section, about 6" long spanwise, just outboard of the right spoiler box, which was 0.003-0.004". It has been tied out a few nites at contests in very benign weather. I have only flown 120 kt or more a few minutes, and never over 135. I don't know if any of this makes any difference, just adding to the data pool. -- Hartley Falbaum ASW27B "KF" wrote in message oups.com... Mike the Strike wrote: One of the reasons I switched to Schemmp-Hirth from Schleicher was the latter's recent problems with wings, especially the ASW-27, which was my intended new ship. Any thoughts on why this is happening? Based on my experience and that of others, the ASW 24 has one of the most stable composite wings around. I hope to get around to sanding mine this winter but it's still in great shape--even under the dial gauge--and it's nearly 15 years old. I'm told the '26 is similar. Yet the '27 and now the '29 are said to be much less so. Did changing to hard tanks from ballast bags trigger this? Different wing design? Different materials? Is it happening to every glider out there or just intermittantly? Chip Bearden ASW 24 "JB" |
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ASG-29/ASW-27 wing refinish
Brad wrote:
This is just a WAG............but from reading the Specs on the -27 from Schleichers website, they mention making use of new materials. One notably is the Carbon/Polyethelyne hybrid. I've used "this" material and find it noticably less robust than regular carbon cloth. I believe this material is used in the cockpit area (where pure carbon is not a good choice), but don't have the reference for it. It would be easy enough to ask the dealer about, or someone that has repaired ASW 27 wing. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly "Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org |
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ASG-29/ASW-27 wing refinish
Anyone know what the factory is doing to correct this problem? Has it affected the buying decisions of those who bought ASW-27's or were thinking of buying an ASG-29? On Nov 2, 3:22 pm, "Mike the Strike" wrote: One of the reasons I switched to Schemmp-Hirth from Schleicher was the latter's recent problems with wings, especially the ASW-27, which was my intended new ship. I have several colleagues with ASW-27s of both old and newer production and they all have suffered from this problem to a greater or lesser degree. I know of a couple that have needed two refinishes since new, although this seems to be less common. I've seen ASW-27 wings that look really ugly and that are well beyond the point that performance is compromised. There is no solution other than to refinish the wings, unless you're happy to pay $100,000 plus for a ship that performs like an old ASW-20. The ASW-28 does not seem to have suffered from this problems from the few examples I have seen. I have no personal knowledge of the 29, but plenty of rumors, which I'll leave to others. Mike On Nov 2, 3:15 pm, wrote: I have heard that the new ASG-29 and many of the ASW-27's have had a noticeable spar cap shrinkage problem. I am looking for an unbiassed discussion of this problem, the extent of the problem and possible solutions (other than a wing refinish). |
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ASG-29/ASW-27 wing refinish
I was at the Schleicher factory last week, and asked about this. They
did purchase new higher temperature curing ovens to try to solve this problem, but it has not helped much. It seems that it just has to run its course over time. They did say that the shrinkage seems to be a one-time thing, and it is complete after about 4 years. So if you wait until then to refinish, you should not have to do it again. Roger wrote: Anyone know what the factory is doing to correct this problem? Has it affected the buying decisions of those who bought ASW-27's or were thinking of buying an ASG-29? On Nov 2, 3:22 pm, "Mike the Strike" wrote: One of the reasons I switched to Schemmp-Hirth from Schleicher was the latter's recent problems with wings, especially the ASW-27, which was my intended new ship. I have several colleagues with ASW-27s of both old and newer production and they all have suffered from this problem to a greater or lesser degree. I know of a couple that have needed two refinishes since new, although this seems to be less common. I've seen ASW-27 wings that look really ugly and that are well beyond the point that performance is compromised. There is no solution other than to refinish the wings, unless you're happy to pay $100,000 plus for a ship that performs like an old ASW-20. The ASW-28 does not seem to have suffered from this problems from the few examples I have seen. I have no personal knowledge of the 29, but plenty of rumors, which I'll leave to others. Mike On Nov 2, 3:15 pm, wrote: I have heard that the new ASG-29 and many of the ASW-27's have had a noticeable spar cap shrinkage problem. I am looking for an unbiassed discussion of this problem, the extent of the problem and possible solutions (other than a wing refinish). |
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ASG-29/ASW-27 wing refinish
At 20:31 05 November 2006, Doug Haluza wrote:
I was at the Schleicher factory last week, and asked about this. They did purchase new higher temperature curing ovens to try to solve this problem, but it has not helped much. It seems that it just has to run its course over time. They did say that the shrinkage seems to be a one-time thing, and it is complete after about 4 years. Hmmm, I take it they have examined the construction of this wing vs other wings that don't shrink and get spar bumps. Far be it for me to question Teutonic marketing rationale...but spending $100k+ on a glider that is going to have its performance suffer as the wing shrinks, then get to spend another $20k+ on reprofile and refinish....am I missing something here? |
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