Pricing a '74 Archer

Nathan Young wrote:

This is slow for an Archer, but 10,000 feet means nothing without
knowing density altitude and RPM. A typical Archer should do about
150mph (130kts) wide open throttle at 8000ft DA.

Btw, how do you guys get that high with a non-aspirated and
not-so-powerful engine? Do you do it even with full load? (it seems that
all Americans fly Archers at about 10k ft...

I'm interetested in what kind of airspeed/fpm you use and how do you
lean in climb?

I don't usually go higher than 7000-8000 ft (with full load) and that is
difficult enough in my opinion I try to maintain at least 300fpm all
the way, with airspeed 80kts and leaning gradually after 5000ft.

Regards,

Lasse

Lasse Hero writes:

Btw, how do you guys get that high with a non-aspirated and
not-so-powerful engine? Do you do it even with full load? (it seems
that all Americans fly Archers at about 10k ft...

I recently few my Warrior up to 9000 ft near maximum gross (2440 lb),
to get clear of cloudtops -- it was a hot day, so the density altitude
was well over 10,000 ft. It takes a little while to climb up there on
a hot day, but it's not a big deal, even with 160 hp. I imagine that
an Archer could handle it much more easily.

For leaning in the climb, I think that the trick would be to stay a
little rich of best power, so that you're already rich of peak CHT
(which occurs between peak EGT and best power): that way, at any given
setting the mixture will keep enriching itself as you climb, so
there's no danger of scorching your engine if you forget about the
mixture for a few minutes. You wouldn't want to be near peak EGT, or
else the engine would enrich itself *towards* peak CHT as you climbed.

Here's John Deakin's discussion of mixture and climb:

http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182176-1.html


All the best,


David

--
David Megginson, , http://www.megginson.com/

In a previous article, Lasse Hero said:
Btw, how do you guys get that high with a non-aspirated and
not-so-powerful engine? Do you do it even with full load? (it seems that
all Americans fly Archers at about 10k ft...

Coming back from Oshkosh, me and my friend Greg and our baggage got a
nearly at-gross Archer to 12,500 trying to see if we could see over some
clouds. And this plane has a cruise prop.


--
Paul Tomblin , not speaking for anybody
QUOTE OF THE DAY:

`

David Megginson wrote:

I recently few my Warrior up to 9000 ft near maximum gross (2440 lb),
to get clear of cloudtops -- it was a hot day, so the density altitude
was well over 10,000 ft. It takes a little while to climb up there on
a hot day, but it's not a big deal, even with 160 hp. I imagine that
an Archer could handle it much more easily.

Thanks for the tips. The reason I'm asking is that I've never heard/seen
anyone flying 10000 ft in an Archer or equivalent here in Finland. Of
course we don't have any terrain requiring that kind of altitude, but
the weather and controlled airspace (some airways start at 9500ft)
sometimes require higher altitudes.

It's nice to know that it's possible, like the aircraft manual says too.

Regards,

Lasse

Lasse Hero writes:

It's nice to know that it's possible, like the aircraft manual says
too.

It's possible, but you need to control the airspeed carefully and be
very patient -- I often saw negative readings on the VSI when I hit
downdrafts, but when I just held my climb speed, eventually the ALT
would start winding up again. The POH numbers assume Vy all the way
up, but I'd be worried about cooling -- next time, I think that if I
cannot climb at 85-90 kias, I'll go up in steps, climbing Vy for a
while and then levelling off at a higher speed to cool the engine a
little.

In the winter in Finland (as in Canada), it should be much easier,
since the density altitude at 10,000 ft will be at least a couple of
thousand feet lower.

By the way, I spent a few days in Vaasa in the late 1990's. It's a
beautiful area, and the pine and birch remind me a lot of northern
Ontario (that's probably why so many people from Finland settled in
that part of Canada).


All the best,


David

--
David Megginson, , http://www.megginson.com/

Coming back from Oshkosh, me and my friend Greg and our baggage got a
nearly at-gross Archer to 12,500 trying to see if we could see over some
clouds. And this plane has a cruise prop.

Shoot, Bob Fry got his 85 hp Ercoupe up over 12,000 feet crossing the Rocky
Mountains on his way to OSH.

Anything is possible, I guess.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Lasse Hero wrote in news:mVMYa.452$jY3.157
@reader1.news.jippii.net:

David Megginson wrote:

I recently few my Warrior up to 9000 ft near maximum gross (2440 lb),
to get clear of cloudtops -- it was a hot day, so the density altitude
was well over 10,000 ft. It takes a little while to climb up there on
a hot day, but it's not a big deal, even with 160 hp. I imagine that
an Archer could handle it much more easily.

Thanks for the tips. The reason I'm asking is that I've never heard/seen
anyone flying 10000 ft in an Archer or equivalent here in Finland. Of
course we don't have any terrain requiring that kind of altitude, but
the weather and controlled airspace (some airways start at 9500ft)
sometimes require higher altitudes.

It's nice to know that it's possible, like the aircraft manual says too.

Regards,

Lasse


I flew an Archer II on my first cross-country vacation in June, and often
cruised at 11,500 or 12,500 (although it was just me, my luggage, and full
tanks). It took me 23 minutes to climb from Bakersfield (KBFL, 507 feet
elev) to 12,500 on a warm day.

Flying at the higher altitudes on my vacation kept me above mountains and
turbulence. Plus, I liked knowing that my options were better in the event
that I lost the engine. More experienced pilots might have flown lower.

-John Ross

Lasse Hero wrote:

Btw, how do you guys get that high with a non-aspirated and
not-so-powerful engine? Do you do it even with full load?

Service ceiling on the Archer is 14,300'. That means that at 14,300'
density altitude, the Archer will climb at less than 100 fpm at max gross.
Practically speaking, the performance is a bit better than that, since you
won't be at max gross by the time you climb up there.

This is about the same as my Maule, though my rate of climb is a bit better
at low altitudes. It takes me less than 1/2 hour to reach 10,000' on a hot
day. Still, the only time that pays off is when the winds are strong and
favorable up there and I'm going a few hundred miles, or if there's protected
airspace (like Dulles) that I need to go over instead of around.

George Patterson
They say that nothing's certain except death and taxes. The thing is,
death doesn't get worse every time Congress goes into session.
Will Rogers

I frequently take out 78 Archer II to 10-11,000 ft. Not for
short trips, of course, but for 300+ miles and if the
winds are reasonable, it works well. Gets me that much
above the low level clouds and turblance.
I'm only climbing about 250-300 fpm torward the end,
but no controller has complained.

Mike Pvt/IFR N44979 at RYY


Lasse Hero wrote:

Nathan Young wrote:

This is slow for an Archer, but 10,000 feet means nothing without
knowing density altitude and RPM. A typical Archer should do about
150mph (130kts) wide open throttle at 8000ft DA.

Btw, how do you guys get that high with a non-aspirated and
not-so-powerful engine? Do you do it even with full load? (it seems that
all Americans fly Archers at about 10k ft...

I'm interetested in what kind of airspeed/fpm you use and how do you
lean in climb?

I don't usually go higher than 7000-8000 ft (with full load) and that is
difficult enough in my opinion I try to maintain at least 300fpm all
the way, with airspeed 80kts and leaning gradually after 5000ft.

Regards,

Lasse

Lasse Hero wrote in message .. .

Btw, how do you guys get that high with a non-aspirated and
not-so-powerful engine?

Well, you raise the nose a little bit, push in the throttle...

Seriously, we have the same engine as the Archer. Our plane
has a service ceiling of 14,000 ft, and it will get there.

It takes a while, and careful attention to DA-adjusted Vy
and leaning. I haven't had a problem w/ engine overheating
at those altitudes, btw, usually the air is cool enough
and also I run a little richer than in cruise.

It is helpful to know a little bit about lift and where to
find it, and also not to be concerned if you encounter sink
and stop climbing for a bit. I would love to get a glider rating
so I'd learn more but just paying attention to wind direction
and terrain I was able to find lift flying all around Yellowstone
Park.

Do you do it even with full load?

Yes, it just takes a little longer.

I'm interetested in what kind of airspeed/fpm you use and how do you
lean in climb?

I use POH Vy adjusted for altitude (usually pretty close to Vx
above 10,000 -- also maximize VSI). I lean for best power above
5,000 ft, then just a hair richer.

You won't always get 300 fpm near max gross and high DA.

HTH,
Sydney