Glider down near Reno - pilot OK

M B wrote:
I've wondered, how about ejecting the canopy? It must
be an effective airbrake, lots of drag, right?''

And then if you have to bail, that's one less thing
to do, which is good...

I'm not saying this is realistic. I would be surprised
to find a pilot who would do this even if it would
save his life. Holding a spin all the way through
the lenticular is probably safer too, but it isn't
realistic to think anyone could actually accomplish
such a feat of willpower.

But both are worth a looksie from the armchair...


Doubtful that drag from canopy jettison would add enough drag to help
out of control spiral even if in that situation you could think of it.
As to spinning. Most gliders like this are not sufficiently stable in
the spin situiation
to count on this working. Even if in spin, if a gust unstalls the
glider(gusts can stall or unstall a glider) you are now seriously nose
down with no attitude reference or control.
Will be through VNE before you can count to 5.
In survival situation, best scenario is one that is most likely to keep
speed low and glider trying to fly in trimmed manner.
This would be:
Gear down
Flaps down in high drag configuration, if available.
Spoilers full open and held.
Trim into stable spiral in known direction before losing orientation.

This said- none of this would be useful in situation like described in
early part of this thread.
UH

At 15:24 09 November 2005, T O D D P A T T I S T wrote:
'bumper' wrote:

It went into an unstable phugoid oscillation with each
dive being steeper
than the previous. I chickened out and stopped the
'test' early on after my
ears got pinned back - - and I was in a closed cockpit
(g).

I did not have spoilers or gear out.

I have always done this with the brakes out. It's
always
entered phugoid oscillations, but not so bad that I
felt the
aircraft was in any danger. I must admit that sometimes,
they seemed to be getting more severe, but in the 8
-
10,000' I've had to play with, I've always been limited
by
the need to land, not by the need to protect the glider
from
itself. I'm reasonably confident that with 8,000'
or less
of cloud to descend through, it would protect itself
better
than I could.

I have yet to try the 'hold a magnetic compass heading
of
south with rudder only' method or the 'fly constant
GPS
heading' method to compare. The latter two are difficult
to
practice realistically in a single seat aircraft without
being contaminated/influenced by the visual horizon.
--
T o d d P a t t i s t - 'WH' Ventus C
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)

Mark J. Boyd

BSR? Ballistic Recovery System
Possibly useful for wave flying?

Why? Reading the report of the accident, it rather seems that he was looking
for **** to happen?

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


a écrit dans le message de news:
...
BSR? Ballistic Recovery System
Possibly useful for wave flying?

wrote:
M B wrote:

I've wondered, how about ejecting the canopy? It must
be an effective airbrake, lots of drag, right?''

And then if you have to bail, that's one less thing
to do, which is good...

I'm not saying this is realistic. I would be surprised
to find a pilot who would do this even if it would
save his life. Holding a spin all the way through
the lenticular is probably safer too, but it isn't
realistic to think anyone could actually accomplish
such a feat of willpower.

But both are worth a looksie from the armchair...



Doubtful that drag from canopy jettison would add enough drag to help
out of control spiral even if in that situation you could think of it.
As to spinning. Most gliders like this are not sufficiently stable in
the spin situiation
to count on this working. Even if in spin, if a gust unstalls the
glider(gusts can stall or unstall a glider) you are now seriously nose
down with no attitude reference or control.
Will be through VNE before you can count to 5.
In survival situation, best scenario is one that is most likely to keep
speed low and glider trying to fly in trimmed manner.
This would be:
Gear down
Flaps down in high drag configuration, if available.
Spoilers full open and held.
Trim into stable spiral in known direction before losing orientation.

This said- none of this would be useful in situation like described in
early part of this thread.
UH

A further problem would be the intense cold and 60-70 knot wind in your
face. Would your sunglasses provide any protection? Would you be able to
fly the glider, even if the extra drag improved the situation? Perhaps
someone that has jettisioned or lost a canopy can tell us.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

I had not heard of a "benign spiral" before this thread. Can someone please explain it to me and all? Thanks, Wayne

bagmaker wrote:
I had not heard of a "benign spiral" before this thread. Can someone
please explain it to me and all? Thanks, Wayne



Google - "benign spiral" glider - 350 hits.

Tony V

I wonder if any of you have experience vertigo training. Let me share
one experience.

The room was full of 22 to 26 year old Air Force Officers in Pilot
Training. The general naive attitude was it can't happen to me.

Each of us were strapped one by one in a chair that rotated on ball
bearings and had a rail around the outside. We were asked to bend and
put our heads on the rail and close our eyes. We were then spun for
about 30 seconds, about the time it takes for your inner ear to
equalize and stop sensing acceleration. If the chair was slowed down
you felt as though you were spinning in the opposite direction. The
chair was then stopped and you were asked to raise up and read the
clock at the back of the room..

The room tumbled your leg went out to save you from the perceived fall
and get this about 30 seconds later you could read the time.

I think that spinning a glider to get out of an IFR condition may work,
but as others have recommended stay out of the clouds.

I wonder if any of you have experience vertigo training. Let me share
one experience.

The room was full of 22 to 26 year old Air Force Officers in Pilot
Training. The general naive attitude was it can't happen to me.

Each of us were strapped one by one in a chair that rotated on ball
bearings and had a rail around the outside. We were asked to bend and
put our heads on the rail and close our eyes. We were then spun for
about 30 seconds, about the time it takes for your inner ear to
equalize and stop sensing acceleration. If the chair was slowed down
you felt as though you were spinning in the opposite direction. The
chair was then stopped and you were asked to raise up and read the
clock at the back of the room..

The room tumbled your leg went out to save you from the perceived fall
and get this about 30 seconds later you could read the time.

I think that spinning a glider to get out of an IFR condition may work,
but as others have recommended stay out of the clouds.


Richard
www.craggyaero.com

Richard,

I attended the Air Force Physiological Training seminar
for three days back in 1985 or so. We got to do the
spinning chair experiment. We also got to 'fly' in
the altitude chamber.

The instructor mentioned one time, wives of the pilots
were invited to sit in on the classes to see what their
husbands were doing. One young lady took her seat
in the chair, closed her eyes and put her head down.
The chair was spun and stopped. She was asked to
raise her head, open her eyes, and point to the clock
on the back wall and tell what time it was.

She opened her eyes and pointed steadily to the clock
and without a blink, said, 'It's twelve minutes past
three.' She showed no signs of dizziness or vertigo
of any kind.

They were all dumbfounded. How could this be? Was
she not human?

Turns out she did a lot of gymnastics...


Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

At 18:25 11 November 2005, wrote:
I wonder if any of you have experience vertigo training.
Let me share
one experience.

The room was full of 22 to 26 year old Air Force Officers
in Pilot
Training. The general naive attitude was it can't
happen to me.

Each of us were strapped one by one in a chair that
rotated on ball
bearings and had a rail around the outside. We were
asked to bend and
put our heads on the rail and close our eyes. We were
then spun for
about 30 seconds, about the time it takes for your
inner ear to
equalize and stop sensing acceleration. If the chair
was slowed down
you felt as though you were spinning in the opposite
direction. The
chair was then stopped and you were asked to raise
up and read the
clock at the back of the room..

The room tumbled your leg went out to save you from
the perceived fall
and get this about 30 seconds later you could read
the time.

I think that spinning a glider to get out of an IFR
condition may work,
but as others have recommended stay out of the clouds.


Richard
www.craggyaero.com

In the early 90's, the FAA had a vertigo demonstration simulator at the Reno
Air Races. Similar concept, you got in, closed the door and only reference
was the instrument panel. They had you change frequencies on the radio and
do a chore or two while the simulator turned and the inner ear stabilized.
You were supposed to try and keep the thing upright with no gyro
instruments. Course when it stopped turning you just knew it was turning in
the other direction.

bumper
"Ray Lovinggood" wrote in message
...
Richard,

I attended the Air Force Physiological Training seminar
for three days back in 1985 or so. We got to do the
spinning chair experiment. We also got to 'fly' in
the altitude chamber.

The instructor mentioned one time, wives of the pilots
were invited to sit in on the classes to see what their
husbands were doing. One young lady took her seat
in the chair, closed her eyes and put her head down.
The chair was spun and stopped. She was asked to
raise her head, open her eyes, and point to the clock
on the back wall and tell what time it was.

She opened her eyes and pointed steadily to the clock
and without a blink, said, 'It's twelve minutes past
three.' She showed no signs of dizziness or vertigo
of any kind.

They were all dumbfounded. How could this be? Was
she not human?

Turns out she did a lot of gymnastics...


Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

At 18:25 11 November 2005, wrote:
I wonder if any of you have experience vertigo training.
Let me share
one experience.

The room was full of 22 to 26 year old Air Force Officers
in Pilot
Training. The general naive attitude was it can't
happen to me.

Each of us were strapped one by one in a chair that
rotated on ball
bearings and had a rail around the outside. We were
asked to bend and
put our heads on the rail and close our eyes. We were
then spun for
about 30 seconds, about the time it takes for your
inner ear to
equalize and stop sensing acceleration. If the chair
was slowed down
you felt as though you were spinning in the opposite
direction. The
chair was then stopped and you were asked to raise
up and read the
clock at the back of the room..

The room tumbled your leg went out to save you from
the perceived fall
and get this about 30 seconds later you could read
the time.

I think that spinning a glider to get out of an IFR
condition may work,
but as others have recommended stay out of the clouds.


Richard
www.craggyaero.com