Confusion

"Newps" wrote in message
. ..
What just happened to you is that you helped the local controller cover up
an operational error. Not your fault. The controller at that facility is
required to get a release. The error happened when you took off, having
you squawk VFR is covering it up and gets people suspended or fired.

Looks like the cover up didn't work too well, because when I told Departure,
"I thought I was IFR," he replied, "Well, that's what we thought too, but
evidently Tower messed up."

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...
This has happened to me several times. Now I *NEVER* tell the tower
I'm ready for take off if I'm IFR, I say "Ready for Release". Since
then I've never had a problem.

BTW: Once this could have been really dangerous. I was flying out of
Santa Barbara where they often use a different runway for IFR and VFR.
I told the tower I was ready to take off on runway XXX. Tower
responded with "Cleared for take off". I said "that airliner on final
looks really close". Tower said "Oh, I thought you were VFR I didn't
realize you were at runway XXX". So bottom line, never say "take off"
when you're IFR.

Yikes! I'm in the habit of telling tower when I'm VFR and usually do say
when I'm IFR. This was just the wrong time omit it. I like your suggestion
and will now say, "IFR to [destination], ready for release." I also say what
runway I'm at.

....and don't hold short, hold shorter than short , i.e. where other planes
can get around you if you need to wait a few minutes for release. At the
wrong time here at RHV, you might have to wait 15-20 minutes (or more).

Hilton

"Jon Woellhaf" wrote in message
...
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...
This has happened to me several times. Now I *NEVER* tell the tower
I'm ready for take off if I'm IFR, I say "Ready for Release". Since
then I've never had a problem.

BTW: Once this could have been really dangerous. I was flying out of
Santa Barbara where they often use a different runway for IFR and VFR.
I told the tower I was ready to take off on runway XXX. Tower
responded with "Cleared for take off". I said "that airliner on final
looks really close". Tower said "Oh, I thought you were VFR I didn't
realize you were at runway XXX". So bottom line, never say "take off"
when you're IFR.

Yikes! I'm in the habit of telling tower when I'm VFR and usually do say
when I'm IFR. This was just the wrong time omit it. I like your suggestion
and will now say, "IFR to [destination], ready for release." I also say
what runway I'm at.

On 2007-11-27, Robert M. Gary wrote:
I'm ready for take off if I'm IFR, I say "Ready for Release". Since
then I've never had a problem.

BTW: Once this could have been really dangerous. I was flying out of
Santa Barbara where they often use a different runway for IFR and VFR.
I told the tower I was ready to take off on runway XXX. Tower
responded with "Cleared for take off". I said "that airliner on final
looks really close". Tower said "Oh, I thought you were VFR I didn't
realize you were at runway XXX". So bottom line, never say "take off"
when you're IFR.

For similar reasons I announce something like "Cessna XXX ready at
runway XXL(R) IFR(VFR whichever way)"

At my home airport the parallel runways are quite close together and we have
something like five flight schools so its sometimes kinda hard to tell which
runway the final traffic is lined up on. I swear I saw one pair apparently
swap runways on short final

Whenever you are cleared for takeoff and do not get some kind of
instruction from tower (fly runway heading, turn left xxx., etc), be
suspicious.





On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:14:36 -0700, "Jon Woellhaf"
wrote:

I recently filed IFR and received a clearance from Ground. As part of the
clearance, I was told, "... after departure turn left heading 300 ..." I
taxied to the active, did my run-up, called Tower and said I was ready for
departure. I was soon cleared for takeoff.

At about 1000 AGL, I began the left turn to 3000.

About a minute later, when I hadn't yet been told to contact departure, I
asked Tower if they wanted me to contact departure. That's when the
confusion began. The controller said, "I didn't know you wanted to go to
departure, but, yeah, you can contact departure. Good day." "Well, I'm IFR,"
I replied. After a brief pause, Tower said, "Roger. Do me a favor, squawk
1200. I can't give you departure. You didn't tell me you were IFR. I didn't
get you a release."

I said I'd proceed on course VFR and asked if they'd get me a clearance.
They soon got it and handed me off to departure.

Guess I'll remember to remind Tower that I'm IFR from now on, although I
didn't think that was necessary. At least in this case, it was.

Jon

On Nov 27, 2:09 pm, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
"Jon Woellhaf" wrote in message

...







I recently filed IFR and received a clearance from Ground. As part of the
clearance, I was told, "... after departure turn left heading 300 ..." I
taxied to the active, did my run-up, called Tower and said I was ready for
departure. I was soon cleared for takeoff.

At about 1000 AGL, I began the left turn to 3000.

About a minute later, when I hadn't yet been told to contact departure, I
asked Tower if they wanted me to contact departure. That's when the
confusion began. The controller said, "I didn't know you wanted to go to
departure, but, yeah, you can contact departure. Good day." "Well, I'm
IFR," I replied. After a brief pause, Tower said, "Roger. Do me a favor,
squawk 1200. I can't give you departure. You didn't tell me you were IFR.
I didn't get you a release."

I said I'd proceed on course VFR and asked if they'd get me a clearance.
They soon got it and handed me off to departure.

Guess I'll remember to remind Tower that I'm IFR from now on, although I
didn't think that was necessary. At least in this case, it was.

It isn't necessary, the local controller in this case screwed up big time.
I wouldn't have been as accommodating as you were.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's one way to look at it. However fortunately in this case the
weather was clear and there were probably minimal safety issues. If
pilots give ATC some slack when needed, hopefully they'll be nice when
the pilots mess up. He did eventually get the clearance straightened
out. Nobody's perfect, and as long as we all realize and learn from
mistakes, I don't see why there's a need to be anal about it.

It's a two-way street.

--Dan

Jon Woellhaf wrote:
Guess I'll remember to remind Tower that I'm IFR from now on, although I
didn't think that was necessary. At least in this case, it was.


Sounds like somebody dropped the soap. I usually make my first contact to
clearance delivery by stating words to the effect: "Cessna 1234Alpha IFR to
Miami with golf, requesting clearance." After that, it's all on them.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Dan wrote:
That's one way to look at it. However fortunately in this case the
weather was clear and there were probably minimal safety issues. If
pilots give ATC some slack when needed, hopefully they'll be nice when
the pilots mess up. He did eventually get the clearance straightened
out. Nobody's perfect, and as long as we all realize and learn from
mistakes, I don't see why there's a need to be anal about it.


The clear weather may have contributed to the confusion in this case. If it
were a certifiably crappy day, everyone should have understood that all flight
ops were under IFR.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...
Dan wrote:

The clear weather may have contributed to the confusion in this case. If
it were a certifiably crappy day, everyone should have understood that all
flight ops were under IFR.

No one should not make assumptions under either scenario.

Matt W. Barrow wrote:
"Andrey Serbinenko" wrote in message
...
if I'm VFR I'd say:
"such-and-such ready for take-off, departing north-west (or whatever),
and if I'm IFR I'd say: "such-and-such ready for take-off, IFR to XXX".


That's what I use; no confusion about it.

Same here.

On the VFR side, it also helps the controller to know which way you're
planning to go without waiting to be asked.