Confusion

"Dan" wrote in message
...

That's one way to look at it. However fortunately in this case the
weather was clear and there were probably minimal safety issues. If
pilots give ATC some slack when needed, hopefully they'll be nice when
the pilots mess up. He did eventually get the clearance straightened
out. Nobody's perfect, and as long as we all realize and learn from
mistakes, I don't see why there's a need to be anal about it.

It's a two-way street.


Why does ATC need some slack in this case? Ground control knew he was IFR,
that controller issued an IFR clearance and taxi instructions to the OP.
Presumably the ground controller passes a flight strip to the local
controller on all departures that shows the aircraft to be IFR or VFR. This
is about as basic as it gets in ATC, there's no excuse for this error and
certainly no excuse for compounding it by asking the OP to squawk VFR after
departure.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...

This has happened to me several times. Now I *NEVER* tell the tower
I'm ready for take off if I'm IFR, I say "Ready for Release". Since
then I've never had a problem.


And if the tower respnds by telling you you're released? What do you do?

Any needed release should have been obtained during the taxi so that when
you are ready for takeoff you can be so cleared.



BTW: Once this could have been really dangerous. I was flying out of
Santa Barbara where they often use a different runway for IFR and VFR.
I told the tower I was ready to take off on runway XXX. Tower
responded with "Cleared for take off". I said "that airliner on final
looks really close". Tower said "Oh, I thought you were VFR I didn't
realize you were at runway XXX". So bottom line, never say "take off"
when you're IFR.


I believe the AIM uses "ready for departure".

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Why does ATC need some slack in this case? Ground control knew he was IFR,
that controller issued an IFR clearance and taxi instructions to the OP.
Presumably the ground controller passes a flight strip to the local
controller on all departures that shows the aircraft to be IFR or VFR. This
is about as basic as it gets in ATC, there's no excuse for this error and
certainly no excuse for compounding it by asking the OP to squawk VFR after
departure.


I agree no excuse, but do the so-called VFR towers have strips?
The ones I used to visit didn't use to have printers and didn't
seem to use them for VFR ground movements. The Oshkosh tower
sup was even lamenting to me that they FAA took away the printer
after the airshow each year.

"Jon Woellhaf" wrote in message
news

Looks like the cover up didn't work too well, because when I told
Departure, "I thought I was IFR," he replied, "Well, that's what we
thought too, but evidently Tower messed up."


What was the departure airport?

Hilton wrote:
...and don't hold short, hold shorter than short , i.e. where other planes
can get around you if you need to wait a few minutes for release. At the
wrong time here at RHV, you might have to wait 15-20 minutes (or more).

At some fields what that will get you is the inability to take off when
you are released.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

I agree no excuse, but do the so-called VFR towers have strips?
The ones I used to visit didn't use to have printers and didn't
seem to use them for VFR ground movements. The Oshkosh tower
sup was even lamenting to me that they FAA took away the printer
after the airshow each year.


Use of strips for VFR departures could be matter of local procedure, but if
they're not used then some other means of passing the information to the
local controller must be used.

Jon Woellhaf wrote:

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...

This has happened to me several times. Now I *NEVER* tell the tower
I'm ready for take off if I'm IFR, I say "Ready for Release". Since
then I've never had a problem.

BTW: Once this could have been really dangerous. I was flying out of
Santa Barbara where they often use a different runway for IFR and VFR.
I told the tower I was ready to take off on runway XXX. Tower
responded with "Cleared for take off". I said "that airliner on final
looks really close". Tower said "Oh, I thought you were VFR I didn't
realize you were at runway XXX". So bottom line, never say "take off"
when you're IFR.


Yikes! I'm in the habit of telling tower when I'm VFR and usually do say
when I'm IFR. This was just the wrong time omit it. I like your suggestion
and will now say, "IFR to [destination], ready for release." I also say what
runway I'm at.



It is precisely for this reason that when I worked at GFK, home of UND
and the 75 airplane departure rush every couple of hours, that we would
not read you your IFR clearance until you were ready to go. Very
occasionally someone would really want their clearance right away but
then we made you sit on the ramp and tell us when you were done with
your runup, etc.

wrote:

Whenever you are cleared for takeoff and do not get some kind of
instruction from tower (fly runway heading, turn left xxx., etc), be
suspicious.

When I was at GFK the ground controller gave you runway heading as part
of the clearance. The local controller didn't have to do anything but
say cleared for takeoff if the approach control left him runway heading
when we got the release.

Ron Natalie wrote:

I agree no excuse, but do the so-called VFR towers have strips?

We only used strips for IFR aircraft. The GC reads the clearance to the
aircraft and gives the strip to the flight data man. Data mans job is
to get the release and give the strip to the local controller at the
proper time. Until that happens the local controller has no idea the
aircraft is IFR. At our facility we made both local controllers go read
the departure list off the ground controllers pad. That was the only
effective way to to get the information. All three positions were too
busy to make the GC somehow get that info to the local controllers. The
local controllers would get them as time was available and as he saw
them starting to stack up for departure.


The ones I used to visit didn't use to have printers and didn't
seem to use them for VFR ground movements.


We didn't have a printer when I was there and there was no point in
writing strips for VFR's as we wouldn't have counted them anyways, they
were trash as soon as you were done with them.



The Oshkosh tower
sup was even lamenting to me that they FAA took away the printer
after the airshow each year.


OSH doesn't have any traffic other than for the airshow.

"Newps" wrote in message
. ..

It is precisely for this reason that when I worked at GFK, home of UND and
the 75 airplane departure rush every couple of hours, that we would not
read you your IFR clearance until you were ready to go.


Great idea. Put the lengthier transmissions on the local control frequency
when 75 airplanes are looking to depart. I'm sure they don't mind waiting
for that IFR departure while he reviews his clearance at the hold short
line.