More Failed Autos Coming Soon.....

Now that touchdown autorotations are no longer required or even
demonstrated for CFI applicants, nor are FAA inspectors going to do
them, is the general proficiency for autorotations going down the tubes
by FAA mandate?
I seeeee.......a new CFI isn't required to show any-ANY proficiency in
a full on auto so they will be unable to teach something that has the
FAA scared to death. How is that going to bode for new helicopter
pilots? Hmmmmm?
A new batch of helicopter pilots that are not able to do some of the
most important and perhaps critical flight manuevers and yet are going
to be hauling unwitting and unsuspecting passengers.
Is there something wrong with this picture? Does it rank right in there
with only demonstrating an approach to a spin without actually
experiencing one and then go teach the same flawed philosophy?
I can see lots of tailbooms being chopped off in the next couple
years...
Comments anyone?
Rocky

Seems like a bad idea to have instructors that have not
actually demonstrated a spin (for airplanes), or a touchdown
auto (heli's). I went to talk by the founder of Silver
State helicopters, and he mentioned that they had wrecked
two R-22s in one week practicing touchdown auto's when the
outside air temperature was hot, and the density altitude
was high. It could be that the FAA is responding to
pressure from the flight schools that touchdown autos are
too dangerous to their equipment.

Don W.

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
Now that touchdown autorotations are no longer required or even
demonstrated for CFI applicants, nor are FAA inspectors going to do
them, is the general proficiency for autorotations going down the tubes
by FAA mandate?
I seeeee.......a new CFI isn't required to show any-ANY proficiency in
a full on auto so they will be unable to teach something that has the
FAA scared to death. How is that going to bode for new helicopter
pilots? Hmmmmm?
A new batch of helicopter pilots that are not able to do some of the
most important and perhaps critical flight manuevers and yet are going
to be hauling unwitting and unsuspecting passengers.
Is there something wrong with this picture? Does it rank right in there
with only demonstrating an approach to a spin without actually
experiencing one and then go teach the same flawed philosophy?
I can see lots of tailbooms being chopped off in the next couple
years...
Comments anyone?
Rocky

No, I think its because so many of the upper echelon of the FAA are
inept and not professional pilots. Why???? Because 20 years ago the FAA
in its weird way was hiring so many brand new inexperienced pilots as
part of the "affirmative action" policy and hired a lot of barely legal
commercial pilots as general aviation ops inspectors. Over the years,
they have risen to the upper reaches of the FAA and are now in policy
making positions. That is rearing its ugly head in dumbing down
requirements for pilots because the rule makers don't know what in
phuck they are doing!
Shall I tell you what i really think and not sugar coat it?
As for the R-22 and high density altitude lack of performance, I guess
that speaks for itself? Sure as hell didn't have much to do with pilot
performance...or did it? The R-22 is popular in SoAfrica and
Johannesburg sits at about 5,000'msl. I haven't heard of any particular
problems there? I spent a couple of years flying in that area some 30
years ago with both piston and turbine helicopters and airplanes.
Arrrgggghhhhh
Best Regards
Rocky

This kinda ticks me off. Are they (Silver State) telling you that if
it is hot and high, that the helicopter can not do an auto? Sure seems
like it. All it tells me is that they do not know how to do them
(instructors). Understanding your machine includes all the conditions
you can encounter. Makes me want to really fly with them.... NOT.

Where I fly now, as part of recurrency, we do full touch down auto's,
hydraulic failure to touch down, stuck pedal also to touch down. Glad
of that and I shake my head when I see it not being a requirement.
Sure you may bang up a bird (I understand the financial impact), but
when the **** hits the fan, you may have just saved 4 or 6 people.

When I taught fixed wing, my requirement was to do spins even though
the FAA did not require it. And depending on the student, I would take
them up in a Citabria and show some limited aerobatics. Was not a
requirement, but everyone of my students gained confidence.

-Mark



On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:00:48 GMT, Don W
wrote:

Seems like a bad idea to have instructors that have not
actually demonstrated a spin (for airplanes), or a touchdown
auto (heli's). I went to talk by the founder of Silver
State helicopters, and he mentioned that they had wrecked
two R-22s in one week practicing touchdown auto's when the
outside air temperature was hot, and the density altitude
was high. It could be that the FAA is responding to
pressure from the flight schools that touchdown autos are
too dangerous to their equipment.

Don W.

wrote in message
...

When I taught fixed wing, my requirement was to do spins even though
the FAA did not require it. And depending on the student, I would take
them up in a Citabria and show some limited aerobatics. Was not a
requirement, but everyone of my students gained confidence.

-Mark


Damned straight! There's nothing like getting out of extreme unusual
attitudes with an instructor for impressing on the student that they "can"
do it safely. Maybe it's not required by the FAA, but I bet it saves a life
somewhere along the way!

Way to go! thumbs up!

Fly Safe,
Steve R.

Hey Mark,

I don't think they were saying it couldn't be done. Only
that the number of bent R22's increased dramatically when
the temperature got hot ;-)

wrote:
This kinda ticks me off. Are they (Silver State) telling you that if
it is hot and high, that the helicopter can not do an auto? Sure seems
like it. All it tells me is that they do not know how to do them
(instructors). Understanding your machine includes all the conditions
you can encounter. Makes me want to really fly with them.... NOT.

Where I fly now, as part of recurrency, we do full touch down auto's,
hydraulic failure to touch down, stuck pedal also to touch down. Glad
of that and I shake my head when I see it not being a requirement.
Sure you may bang up a bird (I understand the financial impact), but
when the **** hits the fan, you may have just saved 4 or 6 people.

Agreed.

When I taught fixed wing, my requirement was to do spins even though
the FAA did not require it. And depending on the student, I would take
them up in a Citabria and show some limited aerobatics. Was not a
requirement, but everyone of my students gained confidence.

-Mark

I've got about 36 hours in the Citabrias, with my share of
spinning earth and upside down horizon time ;-) I agree
with you that some aerobatic experience is a good confidence
builder. It teaches you that you don't always have to fly
gentle turns with light control inputs.

Don W.

Which once again, points out a lack of training and knowledge on the
instructors part.


On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:45:47 GMT, Don W
wrote:

Hey Mark,

I don't think they were saying it couldn't be done. Only
that the number of bent R22's increased dramatically when
the temperature got hot ;-)

wrote:
This kinda ticks me off. Are they (Silver State) telling you that if
it is hot and high, that the helicopter can not do an auto? Sure seems
like it. All it tells me is that they do not know how to do them
(instructors). Understanding your machine includes all the conditions
you can encounter. Makes me want to really fly with them.... NOT.

Where I fly now, as part of recurrency, we do full touch down auto's,
hydraulic failure to touch down, stuck pedal also to touch down. Glad
of that and I shake my head when I see it not being a requirement.
Sure you may bang up a bird (I understand the financial impact), but
when the **** hits the fan, you may have just saved 4 or 6 people.

Agreed.

When I taught fixed wing, my requirement was to do spins even though
the FAA did not require it. And depending on the student, I would take
them up in a Citabria and show some limited aerobatics. Was not a
requirement, but everyone of my students gained confidence.

-Mark

I've got about 36 hours in the Citabrias, with my share of
spinning earth and upside down horizon time ;-) I agree
with you that some aerobatic experience is a good confidence
builder. It teaches you that you don't always have to fly
gentle turns with light control inputs.

Don W.

No doubt! Its one of the problems with having instructors
who have barely completed their commercial pilots license
and CFI themselves. Unfortunately, this is not at all
unusual in both rotorcraft and fixed wing, as "CFI" seems to
be mostly a way to build the time necessary to get a seat
that pays more instead of a genuine avocation.

Don W.

wrote:
Which once again, points out a lack of training and knowledge on the
instructors part.

Hey Mark,

I don't think they were saying it couldn't be done. Only
that the number of bent R22's increased dramatically when
the temperature got hot ;-)

wrote: