Airport Access Denied?

We are having trouble at our airport. Our airport, here in Oregon,
USA, is owned by The Port of Hood River, and is federally funded.
It’s a small, uncontrolled airport and on a busy day, probably has
about a dozen non glider flights. We generally fly our gliders on the
windy days, and have the airport all to ourselves. The Port thinks
it's against FARs and/or unsafe to use cars to move the gliders up and
down the taxiways and off of the runway. They want us to use the tow
plane to move the gliders around the airport, and they also are
telling us that no persons are allowed past the hold lines, wing
runners included! These procedures were written by a person at the
Port that isn't even a pilot! We have had no problems with any of the
other planes or pilots, but the Port is trying to make it impossible
for us to operate by coming up with a bunch of ridicules rules. They
keep talking about an FAA Obstruction Free Zone that is 400ft from the
centerline of the runway, where no gliders can be, which disallows us
from staging and parking the gliders next to the take off ends of the
runway.

What I am looking for is a list of public airports where gliders and
power traffic coexist, and descriptions of how the gliders are staged
and moved around. I also think it’s time to get the AOPA involved.
All help is greatly appreciated.

Gary Boggs
www.nwskysports.com

Were we fly at Saratoga County Airport, in Saratoga Springs, our
public owned airport issues NOTAMS that gliders are on the vicinity of
the runway edges.
http://www.airnav.com/airport/5B2 (unofficial info...)

Tim

www.adirondacksoaring.com





On May 4, 10:47*am, GARY BOGGS wrote:
We are having trouble at our airport. *Our airport, here in Oregon,
USA, is owned by The Port of Hood River, and is federally funded.
It’s a small, uncontrolled airport and on a busy day, probably has
about a dozen non glider flights. *We generally fly our gliders on the
windy days, and have the airport all to ourselves. *The Port thinks
it's against FARs and/or unsafe to use cars to move the gliders up and
down the taxiways and off of the runway. *They want us to use the tow
plane to move the gliders around the airport, and they also are
telling us that no persons are allowed past the hold lines, wing
runners included! *These procedures were written by a person at the
Port that isn't even a pilot! *We have had no problems with any of the
other planes or pilots, but the Port is trying to make it impossible
for us to operate by coming up with a bunch of ridicules rules. They
keep talking about an FAA Obstruction Free Zone that is 400ft from the
centerline of the runway, where no gliders can be, which disallows us
from staging and parking the gliders next to the take off ends of the
runway.

What I am looking for is a list of public airports where gliders and
power traffic coexist, and descriptions of how the gliders are staged
and moved around. *I also think it’s time to get the AOPA involved.
All help is greatly appreciated.

Gary Boggswww.nwskysports.com

Gary -

Here at Arlington Airport ("AWO", near Seattle, WA) we operate at a
pretty busy GA airport that has powered airplanes, helicopters, small
jets, ultralights, and gliders.

There are instrument approaches being practiced, helicopter auto-
rotations being practiced, close formation-flying by the "BlackJack
Squadron" (a big association of RV pilots), first flights of
experimental aircraft are being attempted... And through it all we
have no problems staging our gliders using the main taxiways, and on
our parallel grass strip about 150 feet from the centerline of the
main paved runway.

We use golf carts to move the majority of our gliders around, but a
few individuals use tow-bars and their cars to bring the gliders down
the taxiways. As long as people are cautious and keep an eye in the
rear view mirror to ensure that they're not holding up a small plane,
we don't have any problems.

Our club also regularly goes on "encampments" for a weekend or a whole
week to some other airports in the area - and at all of those places
we also operate in a similar manner. At small airports with a single
runway we usually stage the gliders just behind the hold lines until
the last moment, when we roll them out (pilot already secured for
takeoff), hook up the rope, and launch them.

I think getting the SSA and the AOPA involved is a *very* good idea at
this point!

Good luck,

--Noel
Evergreen Soaring
http://www.evergreensoaring.org/airc...ports/?page=12 (overhead
view of AWO and links to other airports we fly at)

GARY BOGGS wrote:
We are having trouble at our airport. Our airport, here in Oregon,
USA, is owned by The Port of Hood River, and is federally funded.
It’s a small, uncontrolled airport and on a busy day, probably has
about a dozen non glider flights. We generally fly our gliders on the
windy days, and have the airport all to ourselves. The Port thinks
it's against FARs and/or unsafe to use cars to move the gliders up and
down the taxiways and off of the runway. They want us to use the tow
plane to move the gliders around the airport, and they also are
telling us that no persons are allowed past the hold lines, wing
runners included! These procedures were written by a person at the
Port that isn't even a pilot! We have had no problems with any of the
other planes or pilots, but the Port is trying to make it impossible
for us to operate by coming up with a bunch of ridicules rules. They
keep talking about an FAA Obstruction Free Zone that is 400ft from the
centerline of the runway, where no gliders can be, which disallows us
from staging and parking the gliders next to the take off ends of the
runway.

What I am looking for is a list of public airports where gliders and
power traffic coexist, and descriptions of how the gliders are staged
and moved around. I also think it’s time to get the AOPA involved.
All help is greatly appreciated.

Gary Boggs
www.nwskysports.com

At Boulder, CO we have an east/west main runway. The airport has about
55,000 operations per year. Power aircraft are based to the south of
the runway. Glider operations are to the north.
Checking on Google Earth, from the center-line of the main runway
proceeding north, there is a secondary glider/tow-plane landing strip, a
paved glider strip, tie-downs, glider trailers, club and commercial ops
facilities, trees, car parking, fencing and a public street within 400
feet. To the south, within 400 feet of the main runway's center line,
there are similar power aircraft facilities, hangars and office buildings.
Gliders are staged to the north of the glider strip.
Here are coordinates: 40° 2'20.62"N 105°13'43.68"W

North Carolina Soaring Association has operated out of Harnett County
Airport (KHRJ) in North Carolina for probably 15 years or more. KHRJ
is a public, uncontrolled airfield that is managed by Harnett County.
A contractor runs the single FBO. We stage our gliders in the grass
alongside the paved 5,000' runway and launch from the paved runway.
We land either on the grass parallel to the runway or on the paved
runway.

At one time, one of the county commissioners (I think) got upset with
us and one thing they wanted us to do was to assemble gliders WAAAAAY
back from the launch point and manhandle them out to the runway. Our
elder members mentioned to the FBO that if they had to push their
gliders and/or walk their wings for 3,000 feet or more, in the hot
days of summer, that there could be some problems. After that was
said and understood, we are back to assembling out near the launch
point. We do keep our trailers about as far from the runway
centerline as topography allows. Gliders are either staged by
manpower or with the help of electric golf carts.

The runway has been extended twice over the past few years, first from
3,700' to 4,300' and finally to 5,000'. Part of the County's
justification for lengthening the runway was based on aircraft
movements created by the different groups using the airport. The
highest number of movements came from the State Bureau of
Investigations who keeps several airplanes based there. Our soaring
club was fourth out of twenty groups. I have no idea where they got
their numbers for our movements because we never provided them with
any data. Probably just atmospheric extraction. So, they "used" us
to their benefit.

Their "chief" instructor (he doesn't work for the FBO, but is a
regular presence on the field) is a member of the County Airport Board
of Commissioners. He always states that he is happy for us to fly
there. He states we operate in a professional manner and he's glad we
provide some "distractions" for his students to deal with, such as a
go around when a glider is landing.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

On May 4, 8:47 am, GARY BOGGS wrote:
We are having trouble at our airport. Our airport, here in Oregon,
USA, is owned by The Port of Hood River, and is federally funded.
It’s a small, uncontrolled airport and on a busy day, probably has
about a dozen non glider flights. We generally fly our gliders on the
windy days, and have the airport all to ourselves. The Port thinks
it's against FARs and/or unsafe to use cars to move the gliders up and
down the taxiways and off of the runway. They want us to use the tow
plane to move the gliders around the airport, and they also are
telling us that no persons are allowed past the hold lines, wing
runners included! These procedures were written by a person at the
Port that isn't even a pilot! We have had no problems with any of the
other planes or pilots, but the Port is trying to make it impossible
for us to operate by coming up with a bunch of ridicules rules. They
keep talking about an FAA Obstruction Free Zone that is 400ft from the
centerline of the runway, where no gliders can be, which disallows us
from staging and parking the gliders next to the take off ends of the
runway.

What I am looking for is a list of public airports where gliders and
power traffic coexist, and descriptions of how the gliders are staged
and moved around. I also think it’s time to get the AOPA involved..
All help is greatly appreciated.

Gary Boggswww.nwskysports.com

IMVHO, it sounds like the port may be mis-applying Part 77. See Part
77, subpart C, regarding obstructions. I don't think your vehicle/
glider movements fit the standards. Obstructions have to do with
airspace.

Contact your Region 8 director for starters.

Your FAA Part 77, Airspace Obstruction Analysis, contacts are
Northwest Mountain Region
Idaho, Oregon, Washington: (425) 227-2659

Also review the defined terms here
http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...ubs/PCG/O..HTM
regarding Obstacle Free Zones (different from obstructons). I doubt
if moving vehicles apply, however they may next pull the safety card.
But this is just a small, uncontrolled public airport, without
fences.

From the above link:

OBSTACLE FREE ZONE- The OFZ is a three dimensional volume of airspace
which protects for the transition of aircraft to and from the runway.
The OFZ clearing standard precludes taxiing and parked airplanes and
object penetrations, except for frangible NAVAID locations that are
fixed by function. Additionally, vehicles, equipment, and personnel
may be authorized by air traffic control to enter the area using the
provisions of FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 3-1-5, VEHICLES/EQUIPMENT/
PERSONNEL ON RUNWAYS. The runway OFZ and when applicable, the inner-
approach OFZ, and the inner-transitional OFZ, comprise the OFZ.

a. Runway OFZ. The runway OFZ is a defined volume of airspace centered
above the runway. The runway OFZ is the airspace above a surface whose
elevation at any point is the same as the elevation of the nearest
point on the runway centerline. The runway OFZ extends 200 feet beyond
each end of the runway. The width is as follows:

1. For runways serving large airplanes, the greater of:

(a) 400 feet, or

(b) 180 feet, plus the wingspan of the most demanding airplane, plus
20 feet per 1,000 feet of airport elevation.

2. For runways serving only small airplanes:

(a) 300 feet for precision instrument runways.

(b) 250 feet for other runways serving small airplanes with approach
speeds of 50 knots, or more.

(c) 120 feet for other runways serving small airplanes with approach
speeds of less than 50 knots.

b. Inner-approach OFZ. The inner-approach OFZ is a defined volume of
airspace centered on the approach area. The inner-approach OFZ applies
only to runways with an approach lighting system. The inner-approach
OFZ begins 200 feet from the runway threshold at the same elevation as
the runway threshold and extends 200 feet beyond the last light unit
in the approach lighting system. The width of the inner-approach OFZ
is the same as the runway OFZ and rises at a slope of 50 (horizontal)
to 1 (vertical) from the beginning.

c. Inner-transitional OFZ. The inner transitional surface OFZ is a
defined volume of airspace along the sides of the runway and inner-
approach OFZ and applies only to precision instrument runways. The
inner-transitional surface OFZ slopes 3 (horizontal) to 1 (vertical)
out from the edges of the runway OFZ and inner-approach OFZ to a
height of 150 feet above the established airport elevation.

(Refer to AC 150/5300-13, Chapter 3.)

(Refer to FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 3-1-5, VEHICLES/EQUIPMENT/PERSONNEL ON
RUNWAYS.)

OBSTRUCTION- Any object/obstacle exceeding the obstruction standards
specified by 14 CFR Part 77, Subpart C.

I fail to see how moving gliders by vehicle on the taxiway constitutes
an obstruction under subpart C. Nor can I find any restriction on
vehicle movement on an uncontrolled airport. There are standards for
movement of vehicles/aircraft on controlled airports.

Your airport sells a lot of Jet A? http://www.airnav.com/airport/4S2
Wonder how many of the 39 daily flights were glider flights? Maybe
two for each tow?

Many airport and aviation planners aren't pilots at the local, state,
and federal levels. None of our local airport staff are pilots. I
think some of the local staff fear flying.

Who did you **** off Gary?

Frank Whiteley






The are some FAA terms, Runway Obstacle Free Zone (OFZ), Object Free
Area (OFA), and

Gary,
We fly from the Nampa, ID muni airport which is a moderately busy
facility without a tower just outside the Boise class C airspace. So
far, our operations are fairly informal. I stay in touch with the
airport manager and commission on a regular basis. We move our
trailers to the active end of the airport with cars and assemble and
leave our rigs while flying in an "unofficial" glider assembly area
which was originally designed as the run up area. In the present
taxiway re-alignment plan the airport commissioners and manager have
made allowances for our operations which, if they had not, would have
created some major changes for us. We do have either a flashing light
on each car or the standard checkered flag. We have never had issues
about wing runners or any launch procedures. We strive to never make
any power traffic do a go around while launching or landing. Our
big plus is that we seem to be in good favor with the power guys. I
wonder if that is where your problems are really coming from. Did
some one go to your airport manager and complain about something you
may have done to tick him/her off? Frank Whiteley's info in very
detailed and should give you a lot of help. Unfortunately, once you
have anybody in authority making rules at an airport it takes a lot of
"communications" to get them to change. I hope it is not too late for
things to be worked out. Once you have the - them against us -
attitude you are in trouble. Yes, the most frustrating thing is to be
dealing with a non aviation minded airport manager who feels they are
doing the safety thing.
Tom
Idaho

..






BOGGS wrote:

On May 4, 1:54 pm, " wrote:

Yes, the most frustrating thing is to be
dealing with a non aviation minded (maybe not a pilot) airport manager who feels they are
doing the safety thing.

familiar with this................
just been evicted!!!!!
but flying and happy elsewhere

GARY BOGGS wrote:
What I am looking for is a list of public airports where gliders and
power traffic coexist, and descriptions of how the gliders are staged
and moved around. I also think it?s time to get the AOPA involved.
All help is greatly appreciated.

I fly out of KFRR, an untowered airport with one 3000' runway. Power
traffic ranges from nonexistent to maybe a 30-40 on a busy day. We have
our occasional disagreements with the management but overall we get on
pretty well.

Generally we assemble gliders stored in the hangars around midfield,
although sometimes we assemble on the ramp next to the FBO building. As
long as we stay clear of taxiways nobody has any problems with this. We
use the tow car on taxiways only when pulling a glider or when it's the
only path; for normal operations the tow car is able to access the
mid-field turnoff and hangars by way of an access road, so that our
taxiway use is mostly one way.

(An aside: it boggles the mind that anyone could think it's safer to pull
a glider on the ground with a tow plane rather than with a car. The car
has better directional control, can actually hear the wing walker, and has
no Spinning Object of Death up front.)

At the ramp the row of parking spaces closest to the taxiway/runway is de
facto ours. When it fills up (rare, but happens on good days when all the
private glider owners show up but haven't launched yet) we park the
overflow on the taxiway side of the grass area between the taxiway and the
runway.

We of course try to minimize the number of people past the hold line but
it's not uncommon to have several when pushing out a loaded glider, and
have an extra hand stick around for a bit to help with the rope and get
the pilot settled in.

We do our best to minimize time on the runway where it doesn't compromise
safety. When possible, the pilot is loaded before staging. We do our best
not to cause go-arounds and always make radio calls before occupying the
runway, just in case somebody doesn't see the 60-foot cross sitting on the
numbers.

The grass area between the taxiway and runway on the east end of the
airport is a usable landing area. In addition to using it to save nose
skids, for training, or for fun, it's also handy for playing well with
power traffic to avoid making them go around while we're landing.

We've had some scuffles with the airport management and with other pilots
but nothing too bad. They've resulted in a few rules which appear to have
no point other than appeasing people, but they don't impact our operations
too much. Particularly not compared with the craziness which prompted your
post.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

Tell them to use a tow plane and not a "tug" to move powered aircraft in and
out of hangers or around the tie downs.
Ok.. that was my "flip answer"..

Automobiles, golf carts, what ever, should remain behind the designated FAA
hold lines, they may have white / orange checker flags or a yellow flashing
light and have a radio on the ground or CTAF freq.

As pointed out earlier, the Port Authority is miss-using the interpretation
of the obstruction free zone to their advantage. If the problems is cars,
then the problems is also aircraft on the taxi way while some one makes and
approach. the OFZ is for physical buildings, trees, towers and hills.

Someone on or near the airport does not like your activity and they are
pushing the Port's button to do something.

BT
Jean NV

"GARY BOGGS" wrote in message
...
We are having trouble at our airport. Our airport, here in Oregon,
USA, is owned by The Port of Hood River, and is federally funded.
It’s a small, uncontrolled airport and on a busy day, probably has
about a dozen non glider flights. We generally fly our gliders on the
windy days, and have the airport all to ourselves. The Port thinks
it's against FARs and/or unsafe to use cars to move the gliders up and
down the taxiways and off of the runway. They want us to use the tow
plane to move the gliders around the airport, and they also are
telling us that no persons are allowed past the hold lines, wing
runners included! These procedures were written by a person at the
Port that isn't even a pilot! We have had no problems with any of the
other planes or pilots, but the Port is trying to make it impossible
for us to operate by coming up with a bunch of ridicules rules. They
keep talking about an FAA Obstruction Free Zone that is 400ft from the
centerline of the runway, where no gliders can be, which disallows us
from staging and parking the gliders next to the take off ends of the
runway.

What I am looking for is a list of public airports where gliders and
power traffic coexist, and descriptions of how the gliders are staged
and moved around. I also think it’s time to get the AOPA involved.
All help is greatly appreciated.

Gary Boggs
www.nwskysports.com