Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National Guard

Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National Guard
From: "George Z. Bush" am
Date: 3/2/04 5:14 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Ragnar wrote:
"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National Guard
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/1/04 7:52 PM Pacific Standard Time

You are so ****ing stupid and ignorant. YOu can't be drafted into Air
Crew or into the Air Cadet Corps. It is 100% a volunteer service, How
stupid can you be? Your ignorance is appalling.

Uhmm..you were the one who specifically stated you received your call-up
notice on your eighteenth birthday, and have at the same time repeatedly
claimed to have volunteered for service (not just for flight duty). So
what's the story (this time)? You got your notice and high tailed it to
the
recruiting office in order to stay one-step ahead of serving in the
infantry, or what?

Brooks



Your lack of military experience is turning you into a bigger fool than
ever.. fool. You were obviously drafted since oyu never volunteered for
anything where you might get hurt. I guess you are the Ohio Coward. Right?

Art, why not just answer the question?

I can't (and won't) speak for Art, but thinking back to those days, a lot of
people did exactly that.
When their draft notices arrived in the mail, they made a beeline down to one
of
the recruiting stations and signed up for anything but the Army's infantry.
That's the way it worked, and nobody criticized it at the time. Personally,
I
never waited for the notice to arrive; it was going to inevitably anyhow. As
soon as I finished my junior year in college, I hightailed it down to the
recruiting office and signed up for the Aviation Cadet program.

George Z.



Because you hung back like a coward doesn't mean we all did. And when you
volunteered for the AAC did thay take you on spot or did they call you when
they were ready for you?


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
ubject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National Guard
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 5:41 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"Ragnar" wrote in message
...

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National
Guard
From: "Ragnar"
Date: 3/2/04 12:24 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National
Guard
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/1/04 7:52 PM Pacific Standard Time

You are so ****ing stupid and ignorant. YOu can't be drafted
into
Air
Crew or
into the Air Cadet Corps. It is 100% a volunteer service, How
stupid
can
you
be? Your ignorance is appalling.

Uhmm..you were the one who specifically stated you received your
call-up
notice on your eighteenth birthday, and have at the same time
repeatedly
claimed to have volunteered for service (not just for flight
duty).
So
what's the story (this time)? You got your notice and high tailed
it
to
the
recruiting office in order to stay one-step ahead of serving in
the
infantry, or what?

Brooks



Your lack of military experience is turning you into a bigger fool
than
ever..
fool. You were obviously drafted since oyu never volunteered for
anything
where
you might get hurt. I guess you are the Ohio Coward. Right?

Art, why not just answer the question?



What question asshole?

Again with the namecalling. Is that all you can do? One would think a
man
of your years and alleged experiences would be more mature.

As for the question, you read Kevin's post and know the question. Just
answer it and end the silliness.

Because it is apparently another one of those questions that he can't
answer, as it would demonstrate that his past repeated claims that he was
purely a volunteer for service were as lacking in truthfulness as some of
his other rants. Art, as you know, has a long history of ignoring those
questions that are problematic and instead leaping into baseless
mudslinging.

Brooks






And exacrtly what is the lie you alledge I told liar? You still refuse
to
post it liar.

That the Guard was a refuge for shirkers during WWII? (Kind of odd, being as
the order mobilizing the *entire* National Guard was published one month
*before* the draft was even approved by Congress) That the Guard was still
recruting in 1943 when you went into the service? (False, as the Guard had
been fully mobilized for about two years by that time, and there were no
local units to join until those units were demobilized in 1945)And now,
courtesy of your recent statement, all of those past claims that you
"volunteered" for service, when in fact you only joined up after receiving
your draft notice? That would be three falsehoods right there.

And you KEEP forgetting that you already killfiled me (again)...

Brooks



Arthur Kramer

Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National Guard
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 11:23 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
ubject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National Guard
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 5:41 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"Ragnar" wrote in message
...

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National
Guard
From: "Ragnar"
Date: 3/2/04 12:24 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National
Guard
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/1/04 7:52 PM Pacific Standard Time

You are so ****ing stupid and ignorant. YOu can't be drafted
into
Air
Crew or
into the Air Cadet Corps. It is 100% a volunteer service, How
stupid
can
you
be? Your ignorance is appalling.

Uhmm..you were the one who specifically stated you received your
call-up
notice on your eighteenth birthday, and have at the same time
repeatedly
claimed to have volunteered for service (not just for flight
duty).
So
what's the story (this time)? You got your notice and high tailed
it
to
the
recruiting office in order to stay one-step ahead of serving in
the
infantry, or what?

Brooks



Your lack of military experience is turning you into a bigger fool
than
ever..
fool. You were obviously drafted since oyu never volunteered for
anything
where
you might get hurt. I guess you are the Ohio Coward. Right?

Art, why not just answer the question?



What question asshole?

Again with the namecalling. Is that all you can do? One would think a
man
of your years and alleged experiences would be more mature.

As for the question, you read Kevin's post and know the question. Just
answer it and end the silliness.

Because it is apparently another one of those questions that he can't
answer, as it would demonstrate that his past repeated claims that he was
purely a volunteer for service were as lacking in truthfulness as some of
his other rants. Art, as you know, has a long history of ignoring those
questions that are problematic and instead leaping into baseless
mudslinging.

Brooks






And exacrtly what is the lie you alledge I told liar? You still refuse
to
post it liar.

That the Guard was a refuge for shirkers during WWII? (Kind of odd, being as
the order mobilizing the *entire* National Guard was published one month
*before* the draft was even approved by Congress) That the Guard was still
recruting in 1943 when you went into the service? (False, as the Guard had
been fully mobilized for about two years by that time, and there were no
local units to join until those units were demobilized in 1945)And now,
courtesy of your recent statement, all of those past claims that you
"volunteered" for service, when in fact you only joined up after receiving
your draft notice? That would be three falsehoods right there.

And you KEEP forgetting that you already killfiled me (again)...

Brooks



Arthur Kramer



How come you never saw any combat? Cowardice?


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National Guard
From: "Kevin Brooks"

And you KEEP forgetting that you already killfiled me (again)...

Brooks

I have a special motivation in taking you out of the killfile. And I'll keep
you out for the foreseeable future.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National Guard
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 11:23 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
ubject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National Guard
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 5:41 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"Ragnar" wrote in message
...

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National
Guard
From: "Ragnar"
Date: 3/2/04 12:24 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the
National
Guard
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/1/04 7:52 PM Pacific Standard Time

You are so ****ing stupid and ignorant. YOu can't be
drafted
into
Air
Crew or
into the Air Cadet Corps. It is 100% a volunteer service,
How
stupid
can
you
be? Your ignorance is appalling.

Uhmm..you were the one who specifically stated you received
your
call-up
notice on your eighteenth birthday, and have at the same time
repeatedly
claimed to have volunteered for service (not just for flight
duty).
So
what's the story (this time)? You got your notice and high
tailed
it
to
the
recruiting office in order to stay one-step ahead of serving
in
the
infantry, or what?

Brooks



Your lack of military experience is turning you into a bigger
fool
than
ever..
fool. You were obviously drafted since oyu never volunteered
for
anything
where
you might get hurt. I guess you are the Ohio Coward. Right?

Art, why not just answer the question?



What question asshole?

Again with the namecalling. Is that all you can do? One would
think a
man
of your years and alleged experiences would be more mature.

As for the question, you read Kevin's post and know the question.
Just
answer it and end the silliness.

Because it is apparently another one of those questions that he can't
answer, as it would demonstrate that his past repeated claims that he
was
purely a volunteer for service were as lacking in truthfulness as some
of
his other rants. Art, as you know, has a long history of ignoring
those
questions that are problematic and instead leaping into baseless
mudslinging.

Brooks






And exacrtly what is the lie you alledge I told liar? You still
refuse
to
post it liar.

That the Guard was a refuge for shirkers during WWII? (Kind of odd, being
as
the order mobilizing the *entire* National Guard was published one month
*before* the draft was even approved by Congress) That the Guard was
still
recruting in 1943 when you went into the service? (False, as the Guard
had
been fully mobilized for about two years by that time, and there were no
local units to join until those units were demobilized in 1945)And now,
courtesy of your recent statement, all of those past claims that you
"volunteered" for service, when in fact you only joined up after
receiving
your draft notice? That would be three falsehoods right there.

And you KEEP forgetting that you already killfiled me (again)...

Brooks



Arthur Kramer



How come you never saw any combat? Cowardice?

Actually, the lack of a need that required the services of my sort of
specialized unit kept us from deploying for ODS, but if it makes you feel
any better we were on the deployment list. There was not a great deal of
need for bridge construction companies during that fight in the desert, and
at the time that is the duty I was assigned to, commanding a company. How
many units did you command? And again, you have been provided the examples
of your false statements that you requested--why don't you try addressing
those falsehoods of yours instead of heading off onto tangents? You asked
for them, and you got them--what are you going to DO about them?

Brooks



Arthur Kramer

Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National Guard
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 11:45 AM Pacific

Actually, the lack of a need that required the services of my sort of
specialized unit kept us from deploying for ODS, but if it

Total horse ****.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National Guard
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 11:45 AM Pacific

Actually, the lack of a need that required the services of my sort of
specialized unit kept us from deploying for ODS, but if it

Total horse ****.

Really? Care to point out where the services of a fixed bridge construction
outfit were required during ODS? AFAIK only one similar unit (264th EN CO
(MGB), part of the 20th EN BDE out of Bragg) made it into the theater, where
it promptly dumped its bridge in the sand and served as an ad hoc
transportation unit. But hey, keep whining--it is kind of fun watching you
dig that hole deeper, and deeper, and deeper... Now, back to your request
that I specify those falsehoods of your's--I did so, and you still have not
addressed them. Here they are again if you just happened to miss them:

1. You said the Guard was accepting recruits trying to avoid combat service
during 1943. Untrue.

2. You said the Guard was a "laughingstock" during WWII when you were in the
service--but in fact the Guard was in the thick of the fight, and the
performance of the Guard divisions was not any different from that of the
regular divisions, and was in some cases superior. As you are the ONLY
individual I have ever witnessed who made such a claim, and you have
repeatedly ignored the facts regarding where and when the Guard was in
combat and what they both acheived and suffered, it appears that your
assertion here was also false.

3. You have repeatedly claimed to have been a volunteer for military
service--but you have recently admitted that you received your "call-up" on
your eighteenth birthday. H'mmm...what's the *real* story there?

Lastly, we could go into your repeated claims that your outfit "never missed
its target"...but wait, in pont of fact another B-26 BG was recognized as
having the best record for bombing accuracy throughout the ETO, and they
missed at least *six* of their assigned targets. Curiouser and curiouser...

Are you going to address these or not? My guess is "not", and you never
intended to address them when you asked for the specifics in the first
place. Why? Because you *can't*, not without admitting your past claims are
pure, unadulterated bovine fecal matter. Leaving us wondering how much of
your other "information" is of similar consistency.

Brooks


Arthur Kramer

Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National Guard
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 12:27 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National Guard
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 11:45 AM Pacific

Actually, the lack of a need that required the services of my sort of
specialized unit kept us from deploying for ODS, but if it

Total horse ****.

Really? Care to point out where the services of a fixed bridge construction
outfit were required during ODS? AFAIK only one similar unit (264th EN CO
(MGB), part of the 20th EN BDE out of Bragg) made it into the theater, where
it promptly dumped its bridge in the sand and served as an ad hoc
transportation unit. But hey, keep whining--it is kind of fun watching you
dig that hole deeper, and deeper, and deeper... Now, back to your request
that I specify those falsehoods of your's--I did so, and you still have not
addressed them. Here they are again if you just happened to miss them:

1. You said the Guard was accepting recruits trying to avoid combat service
during 1943. Untrue.

2. You said the Guard was a "laughingstock" during WWII when you were in the
service--but in fact the Guard was in the thick of the fight, and the
performance of the Guard divisions was not any different from that of the
regular divisions, and was in some cases superior. As you are the ONLY
individual I have ever witnessed who made such a claim, and you have
repeatedly ignored the facts regarding where and when the Guard was in
combat and what they both acheived and suffered, it appears that your
assertion here was also false.

3. You have repeatedly claimed to have been a volunteer for military
service--but you have recently admitted that you received your "call-up" on
your eighteenth birthday. H'mmm...what's the *real* story there?

Lastly, we could go into your repeated claims that your outfit "never missed
its target"...but wait, in pont of fact another B-26 BG was recognized as
having the best record for bombing accuracy throughout the ETO, and they
missed at least *six* of their assigned targets. Curiouser and curiouser...

Are you going to address these or not? My guess is "not", and you never
intended to address them when you asked for the specifics in the first
place. Why? Because you *can't*, not without admitting your past claims are
pure, unadulterated bovine fecal matter. Leaving us wondering how much of
your other "information" is of similar consistency.

Brooks


Arthur Kramer


That is a;l crap and distortions you made up out of your total ignorance of
all matters military. How come you never came out from behind your safe desk
and volunteered for Airborne? Scared?You are no soldier. You are just another
sniveling wannabbee.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National Guard
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 12:27 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National Guard
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 11:45 AM Pacific

Actually, the lack of a need that required the services of my sort of
specialized unit kept us from deploying for ODS, but if it

Total horse ****.

Really? Care to point out where the services of a fixed bridge
construction
outfit were required during ODS? AFAIK only one similar unit (264th EN CO
(MGB), part of the 20th EN BDE out of Bragg) made it into the theater,
where
it promptly dumped its bridge in the sand and served as an ad hoc
transportation unit. But hey, keep whining--it is kind of fun watching
you
dig that hole deeper, and deeper, and deeper... Now, back to your request
that I specify those falsehoods of your's--I did so, and you still have
not
addressed them. Here they are again if you just happened to miss them:

1. You said the Guard was accepting recruits trying to avoid combat
service
during 1943. Untrue.

2. You said the Guard was a "laughingstock" during WWII when you were in
the
service--but in fact the Guard was in the thick of the fight, and the
performance of the Guard divisions was not any different from that of the
regular divisions, and was in some cases superior. As you are the ONLY
individual I have ever witnessed who made such a claim, and you have
repeatedly ignored the facts regarding where and when the Guard was in
combat and what they both acheived and suffered, it appears that your
assertion here was also false.

3. You have repeatedly claimed to have been a volunteer for military
service--but you have recently admitted that you received your "call-up"
on
your eighteenth birthday. H'mmm...what's the *real* story there?

Lastly, we could go into your repeated claims that your outfit "never
missed
its target"...but wait, in pont of fact another B-26 BG was recognized as
having the best record for bombing accuracy throughout the ETO, and they
missed at least *six* of their assigned targets. Curiouser and
curiouser...

Are you going to address these or not? My guess is "not", and you never
intended to address them when you asked for the specifics in the first
place. Why? Because you *can't*, not without admitting your past claims
are
pure, unadulterated bovine fecal matter. Leaving us wondering how much of
your other "information" is of similar consistency.

Brooks


Arthur Kramer


That is a;l crap and distortions

No, each and every one comes from your posts over the past few days. Other
posters have already also called you on most of these points--you have, of
course, refused to address any of their comments, instead choosing to lash
out with your usual personal insults. Kind of funny, actually--one of the
posters was excusing your "volunteering in front of immenent forced
induction" and you were too dim to recognize it, so you lsashed and burned
away at him, too.

you made up out of your total ignorance of
all matters military.

Again, none were made up. You were earlier provided the direct quote that
was the basis for a couple of those items--are you now claiming you never
said any of these things? It won't be hard to verify the facts...so what is
it going to be, are you gonna 'fess up to having made each and every one of
these claims, or not (I hate to have to go back to Google, but if I
must...)?

How come you never came out from behind your safe desk
and volunteered for Airborne?

I did volunteer for airborne. There were not enough slots for those of us
who did so. You have asked this before---why this fascination with
"airborne"?

Scared?

No, and unlike you, i am not afraid of the truth, either. Keep digging that
hole, Art...

You are no soldier. You are just another
sniveling wannabbee.

No, Art, I have done the whole soldiering bit, for a lot longer than you
did. And when I served, we did not take snot-nosed nineteen year old brats
and turn them into instant-Lieutenants (though I am confident that the
majority of those who were thus handled during your day were likely a lot
better officers than you would have been). Nor were we driven to "volunteer"
for service by an immenent draft threat. We did so because we thought it was
the right thing to do, in spite of the fact that it was not nearly as
popular an endeavor as it was during your day. And by the way, we won our
war too; it was called the Cold War, and it would not have turned out the
way it did if not for the efforts of the Ed's, the Gordon's, the BUFFDRVR's,
the Paul Adams', etc., etc., and so on who saw fit to join up, or continue
to serve even after "their" war was over. Some died doing their part, just
as dead as any of your buddies who fell to flak, nor were the fatalities
confined to flight crews or airborne units-- we had troops in our brigade
die every time we hit NTC for a rotation, and we lost troops during the
contstruction operations we executed in Central America as part of the fight
against communism. Not something to make light of.

Brooks



Arthur Kramer

Subject: Countering Widespread Ignorance About the National Guard
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 1:57 PM Pacific Standard Time

ar too; it was called the Cold War, and it would not have turned out the
way it did if not for the efforts of the Ed's, the Gordon's, the BUFFDRVR's,
the Paul Adams', etc., etc., and so on who saw fit to join up, or continue
to serve even after "their" war was over. Some died doing their part, just
as dead as any of your buddies who fell to flak, nor were the fatalities
confined to flight crews or airborne units-- we had troops in our brigade
die every time we hit NTC for a rotation, and we lost troops during the
contstruction operations we executed in Central America as part of the fight
against communism. Not something to make light of.

Brooks



Arthur Kramer


And all this has zero to do with you. Now go away you are getting boring.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer