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Audio recording of RAF Lancaster under nightfighter attack



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 27th 03, 08:20 PM
Richard Brooks
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

M. J. Powell wrote:
In message , Richard Brooks
writes
Stolly wrote:
really, how do you go about arranging that, can you do it via the
web
or do you have to go there ?


I wonder if the last paragaph is what it refers to ?
http://www.iwm.org.uk/shopping/publicate.htm

Anyway, I can't find the leaflet right now but on a yellow Post-It
note I've found IWM 0207 416 5000 Sound Records - Rosemary.

Richard.


"Richard Brooks" wrote in
message ...
Stolly wrote:
As far as i know this is authentic.

Does anyone know anymore about this ?

Is it indeed authentic ?

http://www.stolly.org.uk/lanc.wav

Its a 400k wav file.

Dunno but there is an archiving service by the IWM and they'll fill
a CD-R with stuff you ask for, for about a tenner which is very
cheap.

All that wartime recording by in-the-field news gatherers can be
yours for little money!


There was a famous recording made by Richard Dimbleby(?) in a
Lancaster
over Germany.

The Germans were alleged to have broadcast live from a bomber over
London, but I don't think that would be in the IWM.

Mike


Dunno but the record does have on side one, a sound track of a Do17 taxiing
and taking off, recorded internally. What a bloody awful noise that was.

The more interesting and the longest track is of a single Me109 starting up,
taking off and buzzing the recordist a couple of times, then there are
several pairs of Me109s taking off, same with He111s taking off and finally
the whole lot approaching from some distance away. All starts quiet with a
bird singing in the foreground then lots and lots of aircraft flying over
then all fades out. After a while the bird starts singing again. I think
the track is called "Bound for London."

Richard.


Ads
  #12  
Old September 27th 03, 09:03 PM
av8r
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Brian

This whole thing stinks. Couple of points:

The Nav says half a minute to go..for what, the I.P. because later the
bomb aimer says the bombs going in about a minute. In the meantime
someone (the Nav?) is saying keep weaving.

The R.A.F. used the term Bomb Aimer NOT Bombardier. BTW, you never here
the Bomb Aimer say 'Bombs Gone'

There was no drone of engines in the background even with the pilot and
other crew members talking with O2 masks on you would have heard
something.

All the wartime R.C.A.F. and R.A.F. pilots I know, used individual names
of their crew versus crew position when calling them on the intercom.

The skipper asks the engineer to put the revs up. To what RPM?

The recording device would have been connected to the intercom system.
Only one person can talk at a time yet we here a number of the crew
cheering over the supposed shoot down of a unidentified Luftwaffe
aircraft. I don't think they had hot mikes back then.
Maybe our resident Lanc F/E Gord Beaman can answer that question.

How could the pilot see the aircraft going down, as it would be well
behind him by the time he says anything about it, even if the aircraft
had been shot down while making a head on attack.

There are other things that don't sound right but I'll leave it at that
for now.

Cheers...Chris









  #13  
Old September 27th 03, 11:39 PM
Stolly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

FYI with the help of a number of other people we have proved this recording
to be authenic.

"Wynford Vaughn Thomas did a trip to Berlin on 3 Sep 1943 to make the famous
BBC recording, broadcast in the Home Service on 4th September 1943 and many
times since, of a Lancaster crew on a bombing raid. This included the
shooting down of an attacking fighter"

Discussion thread here

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forum...pagenu mber=1

"av8r" wrote in message
...
Hi Brian

This whole thing stinks. Couple of points:

The Nav says half a minute to go..for what, the I.P. because later the
bomb aimer says the bombs going in about a minute. In the meantime
someone (the Nav?) is saying keep weaving.

The R.A.F. used the term Bomb Aimer NOT Bombardier. BTW, you never here
the Bomb Aimer say 'Bombs Gone'

There was no drone of engines in the background even with the pilot and
other crew members talking with O2 masks on you would have heard
something.

All the wartime R.C.A.F. and R.A.F. pilots I know, used individual names
of their crew versus crew position when calling them on the intercom.

The skipper asks the engineer to put the revs up. To what RPM?

The recording device would have been connected to the intercom system.
Only one person can talk at a time yet we here a number of the crew
cheering over the supposed shoot down of a unidentified Luftwaffe
aircraft. I don't think they had hot mikes back then.
Maybe our resident Lanc F/E Gord Beaman can answer that question.

How could the pilot see the aircraft going down, as it would be well
behind him by the time he says anything about it, even if the aircraft
had been shot down while making a head on attack.

There are other things that don't sound right but I'll leave it at that
for now.

Cheers...Chris











  #14  
Old September 28th 03, 04:32 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

av8r wrote:

There are other things that don't sound right but I'll leave it at that
for now.

Cheers...Chris


Well, I could be wrong of course but I doubt that it's real. As
Chris says it's too quiet. the bloody Lanc makes one hell of a
lot of noise and I remember the intercom being of poor quality
because of that and the poor headsets we used (HS-33 with
handheld T-17 carbon mikes). You can indeed hear several people
talking at once on any a/c intercom system that I've ever used
though but it's just too quiet on this one. Another thing is that
on any system that I've used (except for 'hot mics' on takeoff
and landing) you always hear the click as anyone pushes their mic
switch and the hiss of background noise while the mic is open.
There was none of this...all in all it was too quiet in my
estimation...I think it was faked. I gotta add though that the MG
sounded kinda real to me...
--

-Gord.
  #15  
Old September 28th 03, 10:16 AM
Stolly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

ITS REAL

We have the name of the aircraft involved, its Squadron, the name of the BBC
guys that made the recording, a photo of them standing outside the aircraft
in question before the mission, pictures of the equipment they used, and the
date of the incident.

""Wynford Vaughn Thomas did a trip to Berlin on 3 Sep 1943 to make the
famous
BBC recording, broadcast in the Home Service on 4th September 1943 and many
times since, of a Lancaster crew on a bombing raid. This included the
shooting down of an attacking fighter"

Seriously, read this thread. Proof is at the end of the second page. On
Page 3 you have the people who said it was not authentic admiting they were
wrong.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forum...pagenu mber=1

ITS REAL

"Gord Beaman" wrote in message
...
av8r wrote:

There are other things that don't sound right but I'll leave it at that
for now.

Cheers...Chris


Well, I could be wrong of course but I doubt that it's real. As
Chris says it's too quiet. the bloody Lanc makes one hell of a
lot of noise and I remember the intercom being of poor quality
because of that and the poor headsets we used (HS-33 with
handheld T-17 carbon mikes). You can indeed hear several people
talking at once on any a/c intercom system that I've ever used
though but it's just too quiet on this one. Another thing is that
on any system that I've used (except for 'hot mics' on takeoff
and landing) you always hear the click as anyone pushes their mic
switch and the hiss of background noise while the mic is open.
There was none of this...all in all it was too quiet in my
estimation...I think it was faked. I gotta add though that the MG
sounded kinda real to me...
--

-Gord.



  #16  
Old September 28th 03, 11:14 AM
M. J. Powell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In message , Stolly
writes
FYI with the help of a number of other people we have proved this recording
to be authenic.

"Wynford Vaughn Thomas did a trip to Berlin on 3 Sep 1943 to make the famous
BBC recording, broadcast in the Home Service on 4th September 1943 and many
times since, of a Lancaster crew on a bombing raid. This included the
shooting down of an attacking fighter"


That's the one that I remember, sorry for false attribution to Richard
D. I remember the tremor in WVT's voice and wondering whether it was
fear or the vibration of the aircraft.

Mike

Discussion thread here

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forum...readid=97116&p
erpage=50&pagenumber=1

"av8r" wrote in message
...
Hi Brian

This whole thing stinks. Couple of points:

The Nav says half a minute to go..for what, the I.P. because later the
bomb aimer says the bombs going in about a minute. In the meantime
someone (the Nav?) is saying keep weaving.

The R.A.F. used the term Bomb Aimer NOT Bombardier. BTW, you never here
the Bomb Aimer say 'Bombs Gone'

There was no drone of engines in the background even with the pilot and
other crew members talking with O2 masks on you would have heard
something.

All the wartime R.C.A.F. and R.A.F. pilots I know, used individual names
of their crew versus crew position when calling them on the intercom.

The skipper asks the engineer to put the revs up. To what RPM?

The recording device would have been connected to the intercom system.
Only one person can talk at a time yet we here a number of the crew
cheering over the supposed shoot down of a unidentified Luftwaffe
aircraft. I don't think they had hot mikes back then.
Maybe our resident Lanc F/E Gord Beaman can answer that question.

How could the pilot see the aircraft going down, as it would be well
behind him by the time he says anything about it, even if the aircraft
had been shot down while making a head on attack.

There are other things that don't sound right but I'll leave it at that
for now.

Cheers...Chris












--
M.J.Powell
  #17  
Old September 28th 03, 11:20 AM
M. J. Powell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In message , "Gord
writes
av8r wrote:

There are other things that don't sound right but I'll leave it at that
for now.

Cheers...Chris


Well, I could be wrong of course but I doubt that it's real. As
Chris says it's too quiet. the bloody Lanc makes one hell of a
lot of noise and I remember the intercom being of poor quality
because of that and the poor headsets we used (HS-33 with
handheld T-17 carbon mikes).


I really can't remember any RAF a/c where hand-held mics were used. I've
seen them used in American films and thought how awkward they were.

You can indeed hear several people
talking at once on any a/c intercom system that I've ever used
though but it's just too quiet on this one. Another thing is that
on any system that I've used (except for 'hot mics' on takeoff
and landing) you always hear the click as anyone pushes their mic
switch and the hiss of background noise while the mic is open.


I don't remember any 'click' when the oxygen mask mic switch was used.
Some time early in the war the mic was changed from carbon to
moving-coil, using an extra amplifier in the intercom circuit.
Convention in my time was that only the pilot left his mic open all the
time, otherwise you got all the crew's breathing in your ears
continually.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell
  #18  
Old September 28th 03, 12:45 PM
Stolly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Do you know where i might be able to get hold of the whole recording ?

It would be fascinating to hear all of it.

"M. J. Powell" wrote in message
...
In message , Stolly
writes
FYI with the help of a number of other people we have proved this

recording
to be authenic.

"Wynford Vaughn Thomas did a trip to Berlin on 3 Sep 1943 to make the

famous
BBC recording, broadcast in the Home Service on 4th September 1943 and

many
times since, of a Lancaster crew on a bombing raid. This included the
shooting down of an attacking fighter"


That's the one that I remember, sorry for false attribution to Richard
D. I remember the tremor in WVT's voice and wondering whether it was
fear or the vibration of the aircraft.

Mike

Discussion thread here

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forum...readid=97116&p
erpage=50&pagenumber=1

"av8r" wrote in message
...
Hi Brian

This whole thing stinks. Couple of points:

The Nav says half a minute to go..for what, the I.P. because later the
bomb aimer says the bombs going in about a minute. In the meantime
someone (the Nav?) is saying keep weaving.

The R.A.F. used the term Bomb Aimer NOT Bombardier. BTW, you never

here
the Bomb Aimer say 'Bombs Gone'

There was no drone of engines in the background even with the pilot and
other crew members talking with O2 masks on you would have heard
something.

All the wartime R.C.A.F. and R.A.F. pilots I know, used individual

names
of their crew versus crew position when calling them on the intercom.

The skipper asks the engineer to put the revs up. To what RPM?

The recording device would have been connected to the intercom system.
Only one person can talk at a time yet we here a number of the crew
cheering over the supposed shoot down of a unidentified Luftwaffe
aircraft. I don't think they had hot mikes back then.
Maybe our resident Lanc F/E Gord Beaman can answer that question.

How could the pilot see the aircraft going down, as it would be well
behind him by the time he says anything about it, even if the aircraft
had been shot down while making a head on attack.

There are other things that don't sound right but I'll leave it at that
for now.

Cheers...Chris












--
M.J.Powell



  #19  
Old September 28th 03, 12:46 PM
Stolly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks

I will check this out.

"Richard Brooks" wrote in message
...
M. J. Powell wrote:
In message , Richard Brooks
writes
Stolly wrote:
really, how do you go about arranging that, can you do it via the
web
or do you have to go there ?

I wonder if the last paragaph is what it refers to ?
http://www.iwm.org.uk/shopping/publicate.htm

Anyway, I can't find the leaflet right now but on a yellow Post-It
note I've found IWM 0207 416 5000 Sound Records - Rosemary.

Richard.


"Richard Brooks" wrote in
message ...
Stolly wrote:
As far as i know this is authentic.

Does anyone know anymore about this ?

Is it indeed authentic ?

http://www.stolly.org.uk/lanc.wav

Its a 400k wav file.

Dunno but there is an archiving service by the IWM and they'll fill
a CD-R with stuff you ask for, for about a tenner which is very
cheap.

All that wartime recording by in-the-field news gatherers can be
yours for little money!


There was a famous recording made by Richard Dimbleby(?) in a
Lancaster
over Germany.

The Germans were alleged to have broadcast live from a bomber over
London, but I don't think that would be in the IWM.

Mike


Dunno but the record does have on side one, a sound track of a Do17

taxiing
and taking off, recorded internally. What a bloody awful noise that was.

The more interesting and the longest track is of a single Me109 starting

up,
taking off and buzzing the recordist a couple of times, then there are
several pairs of Me109s taking off, same with He111s taking off and

finally
the whole lot approaching from some distance away. All starts quiet with

a
bird singing in the foreground then lots and lots of aircraft flying over
then all fades out. After a while the bird starts singing again. I think
the track is called "Bound for London."

Richard.




  #20  
Old September 28th 03, 05:15 PM
av8r
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Stolly

I'm still not convinced this is the real thing despite all the
testimonials otherwise. Why was the term 'Bombardier' used for
instance. Do you not think it could have been just a BBC studio
production for the folks back home who were starving for some positive
news in the night bomber campaign against Germany. It would have taken
very little effort to collect a crew and snap a few pix then pass it off
as the real deal.

Cheers...Chris

 




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