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Light gun work with ATC COMS - Video



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 17th 09, 05:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Mark Hansen
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Posts: 420
Default Light gun work with ATC COMS - Video

On 07/16/09 15:38, BeechSundowner wrote:
On Jul 16, 4:38 pm, Mark Hansen wrote:
On 07/16/09 14:12, A Lieberman wrote:

On Jul 16, 3:59 pm, Mark Hansen wrote:


Why don't you think 91.185 applies once you break out of the clouds?
Did you cancel your IFR clearance at that point? If not, aren't you
still flying by IFR?


Actually it's a visual, I didn't mean VFR.


No. If you break out at DA and continue to land, you're not executing
a visual approach. See the Pilot/Controller glossary for details.



My point being landing is not an instrument procedure and has it's own
set of rules.


When flying IFR and landing through the use of an IAP, the landing is
certainly part of the procedure.


Bear with me Mark. If what you say is true, then why do you get a
clearance to land? Why are you NOTcleared to land on the approach
when you receive your clearance to execute the approach.


Again, if you are flying an IAP under IFR and NORDO, when you get
to the DA on the approach - and all other IAP landing criteria are
met (visibility, etc.), then you land. You had better not be looking
for a light gun signal at this point.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA
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  #22  
Old July 17th 09, 10:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
BeechSundowner
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Posts: 138
Default Light gun work with ATC COMS - Video

On Jul 17, 11:39*am, Mark Hansen wrote:

Come on Allen. Are you saying that you cannot land if you don't have
the Control Tower in view?


Do you have anything to back in FARS that you can land without a
landing clearance on a NORDO situation.

Again, practical world, I will land, but I will be betting on "call
the tower" after landing.

7600 isn't a landing clearance and nor is "cleared for the approach" a
landing clearance. The light gun is a visual replacement for "cleared
to land".

If it's 200 1/2 I am not going missed because I can't see the tower, I
am landing in the real world, but the book world does not support this
for NORDO situations. It does support this in emergency situation
which I would consider the situation myself.
  #23  
Old July 17th 09, 10:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Mark Hansen
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Posts: 420
Default Light gun work with ATC COMS - Video

On 07/17/09 14:18, BeechSundowner wrote:
On Jul 17, 11:39 am, Mark Hansen wrote:

Come on Allen. Are you saying that you cannot land if you don't have
the Control Tower in view?


Do you have anything to back in FARS that you can land without a
landing clearance on a NORDO situation.


Allen - This will be my last attempt, as you seem unwilling to see
the point:

When you reach decision altitude and are able to land (based on
visibility, etc.) are you guaranteed you will be able to see
the light gun from the tower? Do you even want to be looking
at the tower at that point in the flight?

The answer to both should be obvious: No.

If you're NORDO, they want you to land and get out of the
system. Period. Once you land, call them on the phone and
let them know you're out of the air. That's it.


Again, practical world, I will land, but I will be betting on "call
the tower" after landing.

7600 isn't a landing clearance and nor is "cleared for the approach" a
landing clearance. The light gun is a visual replacement for "cleared
to land".


Just how will you get this if you can't see the tower? I expect you
will argue that if you can't see the tower, you're not legal to land?
You need to go back and check the regs again.


If it's 200 1/2 I am not going missed because I can't see the tower, I
am landing in the real world, but the book world does not support this
for NORDO situations. It does support this in emergency situation
which I would consider the situation myself.


As you wish.

Best Regards,

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA
  #24  
Old July 17th 09, 10:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Sam Spade
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Posts: 1,325
Default Light gun work with ATC COMS - Video

BeechSundowner wrote:
On Jul 17, 11:39 am, Mark Hansen wrote:


Come on Allen. Are you saying that you cannot land if you don't have
the Control Tower in view?



Do you have anything to back in FARS that you can land without a
landing clearance on a NORDO situation.

Again, practical world, I will land, but I will be betting on "call
the tower" after landing.

7600 isn't a landing clearance and nor is "cleared for the approach" a
landing clearance. The light gun is a visual replacement for "cleared
to land".

If it's 200 1/2 I am not going missed because I can't see the tower, I
am landing in the real world, but the book world does not support this
for NORDO situations. It does support this in emergency situation
which I would consider the situation myself.


You're counting angels on the head of a pin.
  #25  
Old July 18th 09, 06:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Ash Wyllie
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Posts: 100
Default Light gun work with ATC COMS - Video

Sam Spade opined

BeechSundowner wrote:
On Jul 17, 11:39 am, Mark Hansen wrote:


Come on Allen. Are you saying that you cannot land if you don't have
the Control Tower in view?



Do you have anything to back in FARS that you can land without a
landing clearance on a NORDO situation.

Again, practical world, I will land, but I will be betting on "call
the tower" after landing.

7600 isn't a landing clearance and nor is "cleared for the approach" a
landing clearance. The light gun is a visual replacement for "cleared
to land".

If it's 200 1/2 I am not going missed because I can't see the tower, I
am landing in the real world, but the book world does not support this
for NORDO situations. It does support this in emergency situation
which I would consider the situation myself.


You're counting angels on the head of a pin.


The real question is, what do you do if the tower flashes a red signal at you?

-ash
Elect Cthulhu!
Vote the greater evil.


  #26  
Old July 19th 09, 12:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Sam Spade
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,325
Default Light gun work with ATC COMS - Video

Ash Wyllie wrote:
Sam Spade opined


BeechSundowner wrote:

On Jul 17, 11:39 am, Mark Hansen wrote:



Come on Allen. Are you saying that you cannot land if you don't have
the Control Tower in view?


Do you have anything to back in FARS that you can land without a
landing clearance on a NORDO situation.

Again, practical world, I will land, but I will be betting on "call
the tower" after landing.

7600 isn't a landing clearance and nor is "cleared for the approach" a
landing clearance. The light gun is a visual replacement for "cleared
to land".

If it's 200 1/2 I am not going missed because I can't see the tower, I
am landing in the real world, but the book world does not support this
for NORDO situations. It does support this in emergency situation
which I would consider the situation myself.



You're counting angels on the head of a pin.



The real question is, what do you do if the tower flashes a red signal at you?

-ash
Elect Cthulhu!
Vote the greater evil.


I already covered that. If the weather is good enough to permit *safe*
flight in the traffic pattern I'll break off the approach and enter the
pattern. If the weather isn't sufficent to safely enter the traffic
pattern I'll land unless there is an aircraft on the runway and the
visibility is sufficient to see it. If there is an aircraft on the
runway in such circumstances and I properly followed the provisions of
91.185 then ATC has screwed up, big time.
 




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