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Dangerous GPS jamming?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 22nd 13, 07:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Matt Herron Jr.
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Posts: 548
Default Dangerous GPS jamming?

Latest GPS jamming tests ( https://www.faasafety.gov/files/noti...t_Advisory.pdf ) are mostly scheduled at night, but the week of March 11-15th they are smack in the middle of prime soaring time; 1:00-2:30PM PST. They may disrupt GPS functionality over most of California and Nevada and a good chunk of Colorado during that time.

I have personally seen big holes of 20 minutes or more in my flight logs in the past due to these tests. Anything that uses GPS is potentially affected, and increasingly many of these devices are safety oriented.

Potential issues include;

1) ruined flight logs for contests, OLC, badges, or record flights
2) loss of GPS navigation to safe landing sites or getting home
3) loss of PowerFlarm collision warnings (due to GPS, not loss of 915mhz)
4) Loss of ADS-B warnings (can someone confirm this?)
5) loss of PCAS warnings?

What happens to drones flown by local law enforcement or private sector during this time? Does SSA or AOAP lobby against this testing on our behalf?

Anyone else concerned or annoyed by this???

Matt
  #2  
Old February 22nd 13, 08:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Don Johnstone[_4_]
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Posts: 398
Default Dangerous GPS jamming?

At 18:20 22 February 2013, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
Latest GPS jamming tests (
https://www.faasafety.gov/files/notices/2013/Feb=
/NAFC_13-04_GPS_Flight_Advisory.pdf ) are mostly scheduled at night, but
th=
e week of March 11-15th they are smack in the middle of prime soaring
time;=
1:00-2:30PM PST. They may disrupt GPS functionality over most of
Californ=
ia and Nevada and a good chunk of Colorado during that time.

I have personally seen big holes of 20 minutes or more in my flight logs
in=
the past due to these tests. Anything that uses GPS is potentially
affect=
ed, and increasingly many of these devices are safety oriented.

Potential issues include;

1) ruined flight logs for contests, OLC, badges, or record flights
2) loss of GPS navigation to safe landing sites or getting home
3) loss of PowerFlarm collision warnings (due to GPS, not loss of 915mhz)
4) Loss of ADS-B warnings (can someone confirm this?)
5) loss of PCAS warnings?

What happens to drones flown by local law enforcement or private sector
dur=
ing this time? Does SSA or AOAP lobby against this testing on our

behalf?

Anyone else concerned or annoyed by this???


From experience in the UK these tests are very localised and in many cases
are confirned to restricted areas where we cannot fly anyway. Bit of a non
problem really. There are NOTAM'd so everyone is aware.

Matt


  #3  
Old February 22nd 13, 09:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Matt Herron Jr.
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Posts: 548
Default Dangerous GPS jamming?

Not sure what you mean by localized, as this area covers the better part of three states. The jamming signal emanates from one location so I doubt they can restrict the affected area to just restricted airspace.

What does a CD do if a NOTAM like this pops up on top of his/her contest? Move the launch time to 3pm? require cameras for turn points (kidding, but what's the alternative?) Hope for the best? If it hasn't happened already, it will. If a pilot gets a "hole" in his log and misses a turn point, is he/she just out of luck?
  #4  
Old February 23rd 13, 08:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
mike
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Posts: 149
Default Dangerous GPS jamming?

On Friday, February 22, 2013 1:42:45 PM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
Not sure what you mean by localized, as this area covers the better part of three states. The jamming signal emanates from one location so I doubt they can restrict the affected area to just restricted airspace.



What does a CD do if a NOTAM like this pops up on top of his/her contest? Move the launch time to 3pm? require cameras for turn points (kidding, but what's the alternative?) Hope for the best? If it hasn't happened already, it will. If a pilot gets a "hole" in his log and misses a turn point, is he/she just out of luck?


Contact them and explain the situation.

We would have had jamming conflicts at the Moriarty contests the past two years, but prior to the events we contacted the powers to be and they worked with us, resulting in no conflicts.

Mike
  #5  
Old February 26th 13, 04:21 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Koerner
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Posts: 430
Default Dangerous GPS jamming?

You can count me as concerned and annoyed. I think enough is enough. I understand that there is a need to characterize jamming scenarios and capabilities. But do the damn tests for 5 minutes at 2AM; not for hours in the middle of the day over a huge geographic area. The FAA is letting us down in this regard.
  #6  
Old February 26th 13, 05:21 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill T
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Posts: 275
Default Dangerous GPS jamming?

Red Flag is in town. The center of the GPS jammer is in the Nellis AFB, Red Flag range.
They are flying afternoon and night missions for 3 weeks.
  #7  
Old February 26th 13, 10:58 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Posts: 2,403
Default Dangerous GPS jamming?

On Friday, February 22, 2013 10:20:19 AM UTC-8, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
Latest GPS jamming tests ( https://www.faasafety.gov/files/noti...t_Advisory.pdf ) are mostly scheduled at night, but the week of March 11-15th they are smack in the middle of prime soaring time; 1:00-2:30PM PST. They may disrupt GPS functionality over most of California and Nevada and a good chunk of Colorado during that time.



I have personally seen big holes of 20 minutes or more in my flight logs in the past due to these tests. Anything that uses GPS is potentially affected, and increasingly many of these devices are safety oriented.



Potential issues include;



1) ruined flight logs for contests, OLC, badges, or record flights

2) loss of GPS navigation to safe landing sites or getting home

3) loss of PowerFlarm collision warnings (due to GPS, not loss of 915mhz)

4) Loss of ADS-B warnings (can someone confirm this?)

5) loss of PCAS warnings?



What happens to drones flown by local law enforcement or private sector during this time? Does SSA or AOAP lobby against this testing on our behalf?



Anyone else concerned or annoyed by this???



Matt


PCAS has nothing to do with GPS and is not affected.
TCAS only uses ADS-B in round about ways and should not affect its resolution advisories/RAs.
ADS-B would be affected if the GPS input to the ADS-B data-out transmitter is affected or the GPS input for the receiver/traffic display system is affected (used to calculate its location relative to the other traffic)
But in effect today hardly anybody in a glider uses ADS-B for collision avoidance. PowerFLARM has 1090ES data-in but few gliders or power aircraft today have ADS-B data-out. Most concentrations probably affecting gliders in this broad area might be PowerFLARM equipped gliders able to 'see' 1090ES data-out equipped airliners in busy areas like near Reno, but even there because of the closing speeds the range/warning offered to the glider pilot is probably not that great. And in locations like Reno with busy airline traffic the more important collision avoidance technology is ATC SSR radar and TCAS (both require transponder equipped gliders) and are not affected by GPS issues. that would change in future as ATC relies more on ADS-B 9and if the FAA ever gets away with closing more terminal radar facilities). Yet more of the silliness with ADS-B, all kind of idiotic. At least in these busy areas TCAS remains as an important collision avoidance technology... and a good reason for having transponders in gliders in those areas.
  #8  
Old February 27th 13, 09:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
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Posts: 1,260
Default Dangerous GPS jamming?

On Friday, February 22, 2013 7:20:19 PM UTC+1, Matt Herron Jr. wrote: Anyone else concerned or annoyed by this???

No. GPS is a military system. Working against jammers or in a GPS denied environment is essential military training.

You want to fly when GPS is being jammed? Go somewhere else, or use a map.

Kirk
66
USAF Ret
  #9  
Old February 27th 13, 09:21 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
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Posts: 1,260
Default Dangerous GPS jamming?

On Tuesday, February 26, 2013 4:21:17 AM UTC+1, Steve Koerner wrote:
You can count me as concerned and annoyed. I think enough is enough. I understand that there is a need to characterize jamming scenarios and capabilities. But do the damn tests for 5 minutes at 2AM; not for hours in the middle of the day over a huge geographic area. The FAA is letting us down in this regard.


Steve, I have to disagree with you in this respect. If you want a system that the US military doesn't train with, then get your own - use GLONASS or the Chinese system or whatever the Euros are putting up. But complaining about GPS outages is like moving next to an active airbase then complaining about the noise!

The fact that everyone has piggybacked on GPS and found wonderful ways to use it doesn't change the fact that it is a US military funded, developed, and maintained system. It's a weapon system! We get to play with it for free, and thats great, but our contribution is in our tax money that goes to the military, not in funding GPS via FAA user fees or whatever.

That being said - Contest managers obviously need to keep an eye out for potential GPS outages that could affect a contes and work with the local military to see if there is a way to work around each others needs.

If this comes off as a rant, so be it - but like complaints about military use of MOAs and restricted airspace, it just irritates me how much people will complain about military intrusions on their pastimes while taking our national security for granted.

Cheers!

Kirk
66
  #10  
Old February 27th 13, 05:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Matt Herron Jr.
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Posts: 548
Default Dangerous GPS jamming?

"The fact that everyone has piggybacked on GPS and found wonderful ways to use it doesn't change the fact that it is a US military funded, developed, and maintained system. It's a weapon system! We get to play with it for free, and thats great, but our contribution is in our tax money that goes to the military, not in funding GPS via FAA user fees or whatever. "


I agree that GPS is a military system. Two military systems really. one Russian and the other American. That being said, GPS has become a critical part of our infrastructure and the military and our government recognize this. There are laws and policies in place to protect the integrity of the system for civilian use;


"U.S. Policy Statement Regarding Civil GPS Availability
March 21, 2003

The United States Government recognizes that GPS plays a key role around the world as part of the global information infrastructure and takes seriously the responsibility to provide the best possible service to civil and commercial users worldwide. This is as true in times of conflict as it is in times of peace.

The U.S. Government also maintains the capability to prevent hostile use of GPS and its augmentations while retaining a military advantage in a theater of operations without disrupting or degrading civilian uses outside the theater of operations.

We believe we can ensure that GPS continues to be available as an invaluable global utility at all time, while at the same time, protecting U.S. and coalition security requirements."

This was pulled from the following site, that has lots of additional info: http://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/modernization/sa/
 




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