Gasohol

Blueskies wrote:


If the alka seltzer test is good, I would think the STC folks would promote it as a way to detect alcohol, but they
don't. They say to do the water to the line test.

Probably because the folks that make Alka Seltzer would sue the living
crap out of them. This would happen because if they didn't sue and stop
the practice then the first time a plane crashes after the pilot uses
the Alka Seltzer test they would get sued for a faulty product.

The water line test works consistently and, if you have the graduated tube
from Petersen will give a fairly accurate percentage. Except for here, I
have never heard of the Alka Seltzer test.

mike

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

I think you are wise to keep on testing. If it were me, I would want to
know if the seltzer test worked as reliably as the add water test, and how
the seltzer would work on a fresh batch of alcohol.
--
Jim in NC

wrote

It would be pointless as 100% alcohol would immediately start absorbing
water from the air.

In another post I said alcohol would absorb about 2-3% by volume. A web
search gives numbers in the range of 2-4%.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I do wonder what the water content of the
pure alky is, the moment it comes out of production, though.
--
Jim in NC

In rec.aviation.owning Morgans wrote:

wrote

It would be pointless as 100% alcohol would immediately start absorbing
water from the air.

In another post I said alcohol would absorb about 2-3% by volume. A web
search gives numbers in the range of 2-4%.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I do wonder what the water content of the
pure alky is, the moment it comes out of production, though.

Probably around 5-8%.

Back in my college days I did "fermentation and chemistry experiments"
and with half-way decent temperature control that's what you get.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

"601XL Builder" wrDOTgiacona@suddenlinkDOTnet wrote in message ...
Blueskies wrote:


If the alka seltzer test is good, I would think the STC folks would promote it as a way to detect alcohol, but they
don't. They say to do the water to the line test.

Probably because the folks that make Alka Seltzer would sue the living crap out of them. This would happen because if
they didn't sue and stop the practice then the first time a plane crashes after the pilot uses the Alka Seltzer test
they would get sued for a faulty product.

Or....
it is a test for water....

MSNBC story about bad gas at a walmart in Louisville.

The "regular" stuff turned out to be 80% water and some diesel???


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18950569/

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Cubdriver" wrote

Well, the alky presumably was shipped in full tanks / barrels /
whatever, so we can hope it's undiluted.

But, it is _very_ difficult (it takes some expensive chemistry tricks) to
get all of the water distilled out of alcohol, in other words, stronger
than
around 98% alcohol. Is that all the alky producers go for, or do they use
the expensive tricks to get the last two percentage points of water out of
the alky?
--
Jim in NC


I don't know whether they do any initial distillation, to get to
approximately the 60% (or 120 proof) level, but the rest is apparently now
done by filtration through molecular sieves. The process is far less
expensive than distillation and achieves about 99% purity.

Various sources are offering a variety of grades of pure ethanol, up to
99.9%--although that does get expensive. Here is just one of the many links
that I found with Google:
http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11549..._Grade_Bio_Eth
anol.html

Peter

On May 30, 7:13 pm, "Blueskies" wrote:
Is it true that there is no longer any requirement to label gasoline contaminated with alcohol?

Good article hehttp://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Gasoline.html

I just did the add water to gas test on a couple of local gas sources and all contain alcohol, and none of the pumps
said anything about it. The feds just dropped the requirement to label the pumps and we all missed it?

Jay, where do you fill the grape from and how do you know there is no evil alcohol in it?

When MTBE was outlawed, the only feasable alternative to add oxygen to
gasoline was alcohol. This is mandated in ceartin parts of the
country - mostly the east and west coasts plus mant of the major
cities. Many states have followed suit and now require 5 or 10%
alcohol to be add to auto gas. Some states require that the retail
pumps lable that the gasoline contains alcohol - some states do not.
Currently retailers can save money by adding alcohol to the gasoline
because the alcohol is less expensive than gasoline, so they can blen
it in and sell it to you as auto gasoline - you may not know it. Any
percentage of alcohol in the gasoline will void your auto gas STC.
There are many pushing for a national requirement for alcohol to be
added to auto gas.

Non alcohol auto gas will be available for FBO's to purchase and sell
as auto gas for aviation, but anyone buying auto gas at a retial
outlet and taking it to the airport in 5 gallon containers will need
to check it for alcohol. EAA has a method on line to tell you how to
check it. I recently did a presentation on auto gas with alcoho for
an aviation group, added 10% alcohol to pure 87 octane auto gas - then
some samples I added water - then lowered the temps on all samples to
below freezing.

First thing was that the alcohol would not stay mixed with the auto
gas - it would seperate out. Second thing is that alcohol absorbs
water - so you could not see the water in the alcohol/auto gas
mixture, but when the temp was lowered to below freezing the water
froze and ice settled out to the bottom.

All said - I will not be using auto gas in my plane - it looked like
an easy way to have a line freeze and turn the plane into a glider.

an easy way to have a line freeze and turn the plane into a glider.

Then why don't cars have line freezing trouble with E-10 gas? Here in
Minnesota, gas line freezeups have essentially disappeared because of
the mandated E-10. It is the only good thing about gasahpol
though...........

I think a major reason not to use E-10 in certificated aircraft is the
~5% power reduction.

On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 21:55:58 -0400, "Peter Dohm"
wrote:

..

Really, the only way that I know to correctly "do the science" is to
purchase a small amount (perhaps a liter) of anhydrous ethanol from a
medical supply and perform a series of tests on a variety of
samples--including samples of known pure and dry avgas and mogas. For the
moment, I am unwilling to undertake the project, and also I believe that
Clare and Bob are correct.

Peter

Definitive test for water in fuel.
Get some copper sulphate chystals. Put them in a warm oven untill they
are totally white. Store in a sealed dry container. Place a few
crystals in your check bottle and add fuel. If the crystal turns blue,
YOU HAVE WATER.Can't tell you how much, but if it stays white the gas
is DRY.

--
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