A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Instrument Flight Rules
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

And A Little Software Program Shall Lead Them...... :-)



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 9th 03, 01:51 PM
John Clonts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default And A Little Software Program Shall Lead Them...... :-)


Cecil E. Chapman wrote in message
. ..
I really can't say since I've never used those program in that capacity.

Do
these other programs provide similiar features to the one I mentioned? I
really don't know for sure....


Pretty much, yes. MSFS is quite a bit cheaper, though the replay features
are not quite as robust as On Top. But I gave up on On Top because it
doesn't use standard drivers and wouldn't configure for my preferred game
controller...

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas


Ads
  #2  
Old July 9th 03, 04:24 PM
Cecil E. Chapman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Anyone considering getting MSFS should wait until the new version comes
out
later this month.


The earlier post got me checking,,,, yours is a great suggestion because
2004 is supposed to come with some IFR features!

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com
"Gary L. Drescher" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

Cecil E. Chapman wrote in message
. ..
I really can't say since I've never used those program in that

capacity.
Do
these other programs provide similiar features to the one I mentioned?

I
really don't know for sure....


Pretty much, yes. MSFS is quite a bit cheaper, though the replay

features
are not quite as robust as On Top. But I gave up on On Top because it
doesn't use standard drivers and wouldn't configure for my preferred

game
controller...


I've never used On Top, but the replay features in MSFS are pretty cool.
You can get a simultaneous chart/track view and profile/altitude view.



--Gary

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas






  #3  
Old July 9th 03, 05:29 PM
John Clonts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Gary L. Drescher wrote in message
news:[email protected]
"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

Cecil E. Chapman wrote in message
. ..
I really can't say since I've never used those program in that

capacity.
Do
these other programs provide similiar features to the one I mentioned?

I
really don't know for sure....


Pretty much, yes. MSFS is quite a bit cheaper, though the replay

features
are not quite as robust as On Top. But I gave up on On Top because it
doesn't use standard drivers and wouldn't configure for my preferred

game
controller...


I've never used On Top, but the replay features in MSFS are pretty cool.
You can get a simultaneous chart/track view and profile/altitude view.


The thing I really liked about the replay mode was being able to watch the
instruments as well as the plan and profile views during playback....

Anyone considering getting MSFS should wait until the new version comes

out
later this month.


Definitely!




  #4  
Old July 9th 03, 06:33 PM
Gary L. Drescher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
. ..
Anyone considering getting MSFS should wait until the new version comes
out later this month.


The earlier post got me checking,,,, yours is a great suggestion because
2004 is supposed to come with some IFR features!


Even the earlier versions are great for IFR practice. Airports, nav aids,
and terrain are realistically depicted. You can set cloud ceilings/types
and visibility/precipitation (or you can automatically download real wx
conditions) for somewhat realistic transitions to visual during the
approach. As of FS2002, there's been a built-in ATC as well, but the FS2004
ATC is supposed to be much better (as is the weather model).

--Gary

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com
"Gary L. Drescher" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

Cecil E. Chapman wrote in message
. ..
I really can't say since I've never used those program in that

capacity.
Do
these other programs provide similiar features to the one I

mentioned?
I
really don't know for sure....


Pretty much, yes. MSFS is quite a bit cheaper, though the replay

features
are not quite as robust as On Top. But I gave up on On Top because it
doesn't use standard drivers and wouldn't configure for my preferred

game
controller...


I've never used On Top, but the replay features in MSFS are pretty cool.
You can get a simultaneous chart/track view and profile/altitude view.



--Gary

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas








  #5  
Old July 9th 03, 08:41 PM
Michael
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote
As y'all know I'm working on my instrument rating (only 15 hours into it so
far). I just had to mention a WONDERFUL aid that I found in practicing nav
radio navigation practice: OnTop IFR Proficiency Simulator.


Good for you. Personally, I have NO idea why the use of PC-based
flight sim products has not become universal in instrument training.
OnTop is fine, as is MS and others. In the past few years, the flight
models on all of them have come so far that for instrument purposes
(where maneuvers are limited to relatively shallow banks and a fairly
narrow speed range) the realism is more than adequate.

Now of course
I realize it can't be used for real simulator time


So what? That's not the point. The point is that instead of mentally
rehearsing the procedures to be flown (chair-flying) you can do it
with a high degree of realism. The instrument rating is quite easily
achievable in 40 instrument hours, but requires extensive ground
training (either solo or with an instructor). Any of the flight sim
products make the ground training dramatically more effective. I
always recommend them to all my instrument students.

Now what I would REALLY like is a 'multiplayer' version for student
training. Ideally it would allow me to network in a second PC, show
me all the same instrument indications the student is getting, plus a
moving map presentation of where the student is, and the ability to
fail his instruments. With something like this, I could really make
procedures training efficient and save the airtime for working on
important things we can't do in the sim like XC in actual weather,
circling maneuvers, and other stuff that can't effectively be
simulated.

Michael
  #6  
Old July 9th 03, 08:49 PM
Gary L. Drescher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote
As y'all know I'm working on my instrument rating (only 15 hours into it

so
far). I just had to mention a WONDERFUL aid that I found in practicing

nav
radio navigation practice: OnTop IFR Proficiency Simulator.


Good for you. Personally, I have NO idea why the use of PC-based
flight sim products has not become universal in instrument training.
OnTop is fine, as is MS and others. In the past few years, the flight
models on all of them have come so far that for instrument purposes
(where maneuvers are limited to relatively shallow banks and a fairly
narrow speed range) the realism is more than adequate.

Now of course
I realize it can't be used for real simulator time


So what? That's not the point. The point is that instead of mentally
rehearsing the procedures to be flown (chair-flying) you can do it
with a high degree of realism. The instrument rating is quite easily
achievable in 40 instrument hours, but requires extensive ground
training (either solo or with an instructor). Any of the flight sim
products make the ground training dramatically more effective. I
always recommend them to all my instrument students.

Now what I would REALLY like is a 'multiplayer' version for student
training. Ideally it would allow me to network in a second PC, show
me all the same instrument indications the student is getting, plus a
moving map presentation of where the student is, and the ability to
fail his instruments.


MS FS2002 Pro has an Instructor Mode that lets you do those things. It
works over the Internet, so you and the student don't even need to be in the
same physical location.

--Gary

With something like this, I could really make
procedures training efficient and save the airtime for working on
important things we can't do in the sim like XC in actual weather,
circling maneuvers, and other stuff that can't effectively be
simulated.





Michael



  #7  
Old July 10th 03, 12:15 AM
MikeC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'm just about finished with the rating and have found the simulator
combined with an instructor to be really helpful. I started with a certified
Elite system for the first 10 hours and it really improved my procedures and
mental prep. It's just a lot easier to learn when you're not concentrating
on flying in our afternoon turbulence and your instructor can focus on what
you are doing because he doesn't have to keep one eye open for traffic. The
MS 2002 is really pretty good as well and I've been using it for practice
before the checkride. It's all pilot nav right now but I understand the new
version is going to have more IFR features and support dual monitors for
instructors. BTW, if you haven't figured it out already, the rating is a
blast. Nailing an approach is like making a perfect landing, very mentally
rewarding.


Mike Clapp
LVK


"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
.com...
As y'all know I'm working on my instrument rating (only 15 hours into it

so
far). I just had to mention a WONDERFUL aid that I found in practicing

nav
radio navigation practice: OnTop IFR Proficiency Simulator. Now of

course
I realize it can't be used for real simulator time, but it has been such a
great aid on practicing hold entries (it has the airport and navaid
database). I can start myself off from any position and try different

hold
entries. I can also go to another screen and 'playback' what I have just
done,,,, with my track superimposed over a basic chart. Also, you can

pause
the simulation and take a look at a map which shows your current position

at
any time. I started using it just a handful of days ago after feeling

kinda
'stupid' not getting the way to make the various holding pattern entries.

I just thought I'd pass along this aid, just in case there are others like
me, who need a little something extra to help visually conceptualize all
this IFR stuff.

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com




  #8  
Old July 10th 03, 12:26 AM
Gary L. Drescher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"MikeC" wrote in message
...
I'm just about finished with the rating and have found the simulator
combined with an instructor to be really helpful. I started with a

certified
Elite system for the first 10 hours and it really improved my procedures

and
mental prep. It's just a lot easier to learn when you're not concentrating
on flying in our afternoon turbulence and your instructor can focus on

what
you are doing because he doesn't have to keep one eye open for traffic.

The
MS 2002 is really pretty good as well and I've been using it for practice
before the checkride. It's all pilot nav right now but I understand the

new
version is going to have more IFR features and support dual monitors for
instructors.


MS FS2002 already supports a networked connection to an instructor's
computer. (There's also a multiplayer mode so you can fly with your friends
and see each others' planes.)

--Gary


BTW, if you haven't figured it out already, the rating is a
blast. Nailing an approach is like making a perfect landing, very mentally
rewarding.


Mike Clapp
LVK


"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
.com...
As y'all know I'm working on my instrument rating (only 15 hours into it

so
far). I just had to mention a WONDERFUL aid that I found in practicing

nav
radio navigation practice: OnTop IFR Proficiency Simulator. Now of

course
I realize it can't be used for real simulator time, but it has been such

a
great aid on practicing hold entries (it has the airport and navaid
database). I can start myself off from any position and try different

hold
entries. I can also go to another screen and 'playback' what I have

just
done,,,, with my track superimposed over a basic chart. Also, you can

pause
the simulation and take a look at a map which shows your current

position
at
any time. I started using it just a handful of days ago after feeling

kinda
'stupid' not getting the way to make the various holding pattern

entries.

I just thought I'd pass along this aid, just in case there are others

like
me, who need a little something extra to help visually conceptualize all
this IFR stuff.

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com






  #9  
Old July 10th 03, 09:22 PM
Marco Leon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You can do that with OnTop Version 8.0...

"Michael"

Now what I would REALLY like is a 'multiplayer' version for student
training. Ideally it would allow me to network in a second PC, show
me all the same instrument indications the student is getting, plus a
moving map presentation of where the student is, and the ability to
fail his instruments. With something like this, I could really make
procedures training efficient and save the airtime for working on
important things we can't do in the sim like XC in actual weather,
circling maneuvers, and other stuff that can't effectively be
simulated.

Michael




Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
  #10  
Old July 11th 03, 12:53 PM
Sydney Hoeltzli
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Gary L. Drescher wrote:

I've never used On Top, but the replay features in MSFS are pretty cool.
You can get a simultaneous chart/track view and profile/altitude view.


Gary,

Do you know the earliest version of MSFS with this feature? '98?
2000?

Thanks,
Sydney

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Want simple flight planning software marc Home Built 13 December 20th 04 04:36 AM
Remember Pearl Harbor: Special Program Tonight at EAA Fitzair4 Home Built 0 December 7th 04 07:40 PM
Design Software Brad Mallard Home Built 12 November 12th 04 09:54 AM
Hardware and software for motion platform [email protected] Home Built 0 November 4th 04 10:57 PM
Awesome, free anti-virus program Ken Sandyeggo Home Built 23 September 4th 03 07:29 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.