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Night flying in the mountians in a cessna 150,



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 22nd 05, 06:28 AM
mindenpilot
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"houstondan" wrote in message
oups.com...
nw...enjoy reading your stuff. keep 'em coming. as an owner wannabe
(does holding-up convenience stores really make you a bad person??) i
keep winding up at the conclusion that a 150/2 probably makes the most
sense for me. for now. maybe. maybe that 160hp aerobat taildragger in
trade a plane?? no, there goes the budget again.

the use you are getting out of your 150 is sure encouraging. now, i
expect this is a pretty stupid question but what the heck " do you have
any kind of gps plan if the one and only motor does quit while above
the mountain in the dark? known gps glide-to spots"??

dan


I hate to admit it, but I may have to retract my earlier comment about not
flying over the mountains at night.
Like I said, I fly over the Sierras all the time.
From the time I hit Tahoe, until I get to Placerville, there is literally
NOWHERE to safely put it down.
In fact, I don't think I could even walk away from the plane if I had to put
it down.

With that in mind, what difference would it make if it was light or dark
outside the plane?
I'd be dead either way, right?

I don't know if I'll be doing it anytime soon, but it's definitely food for
thought.

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III


  #12  
Old February 22nd 05, 11:00 AM
Thomas Borchert
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Nw,

If the engine quits in the areas I was flying in I probably would never be
found no matter ware I landed and would take weeks to walk out how wooded it
is.


Uh, a simple, modern ELT would solve that quite nicely. See www.equipped.org

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #13  
Old February 22nd 05, 04:45 PM
Dude
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"mindenpilot" wrote in message
...

"houstondan" wrote in message
oups.com...
nw...enjoy reading your stuff. keep 'em coming. as an owner wannabe
(does holding-up convenience stores really make you a bad person??) i
keep winding up at the conclusion that a 150/2 probably makes the most
sense for me. for now. maybe. maybe that 160hp aerobat taildragger in
trade a plane?? no, there goes the budget again.

the use you are getting out of your 150 is sure encouraging. now, i
expect this is a pretty stupid question but what the heck " do you have
any kind of gps plan if the one and only motor does quit while above
the mountain in the dark? known gps glide-to spots"??

dan


I hate to admit it, but I may have to retract my earlier comment about not
flying over the mountains at night.
Like I said, I fly over the Sierras all the time.
From the time I hit Tahoe, until I get to Placerville, there is literally
NOWHERE to safely put it down.
In fact, I don't think I could even walk away from the plane if I had to
put it down.

With that in mind, what difference would it make if it was light or dark
outside the plane?
I'd be dead either way, right?

I don't know if I'll be doing it anytime soon, but it's definitely food
for thought.

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III



Adam,

Thanks for posting that. I was thinking the same thing. If you are flying
over such inhospitable terrain, what does it matter whether or not you can
see the ground?

That being said, putting a plane like a 150 into the trees isn't impossible
at all. Simply mushing it into the foliage as slow as possible has been
accomplished many times, even if it is a crap shoot. Given the hieght of
some of those trees would make it interesting to get down afterwards though.




  #14  
Old February 22nd 05, 04:47 PM
Darrel Toepfer
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mindenpilot wrote:

With that in mind, what difference would it make if it was light or dark
outside the plane?
I'd be dead either way, right?


The advantage of doing it at night is, if you don't like what you see,
you can always turn off the landing light...
  #15  
Old February 22nd 05, 05:01 PM
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NW_PILOT wrote:
My son went to sleep on me and the
batteries died in the CD player....



Steven,
I think we have roughly the same experience. I have just over 400hrs
in 4 years and have owned a plane the last two years. I agree that
night flying is a great experience but we have limited ourselves to
only local airports on full moon nights. We attend Wings Safety
Seminars regularly and at least once a year, there is a review on
accident statistics. The most deadly combination is always some
various combinations of IMC (terrain), out-of-fuel, equipment
malfunctions AND night flying.
I cringed in reading the heading of your post: night flying +
mountains + single engine plane, but thought to myself that everybody
had their own flying comfort level. Some are more willing to take a
risk than others.
The batteries in the CD player died. The batteries in your GPS
may die suddenly too. In our short two years of plane ownership, we
had seen our engine need replacement with 3 cracked cylinders without
any warning signs (compressions were in the high 70's, oil analysis
were fine, engine ran great etc.). We had a complete electrical
failure in one trip due to bad crimped job of one of the alternator
wires (the logbook indicated that it was done 5 years ago). The carb
heat failed to work suddenly one day due to a crack in the box.
Everytime that we opened the hood (at least every other month in the 25
hrs oil change), we inspected everything carefully. We also do at least
15- minutes preflight check, but we always expect that someday
something in that 30-years old plane may break.
My discomfort level went sky high in knowing that your son
(presumably a youngster) was with you. I would never want to tell a
parent how to treat their children. I just want to register my feeling
as a pilot and a mother.

Hai Longworth

  #16  
Old February 22nd 05, 05:09 PM
Thomas Borchert
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Mindenpilot,

I don't know if I'll be doing it anytime soon, but it's definitely food for
thought.


It is. Ultimately, it all comes down to how you want to manage risk in your
life. Depends on a lot of factors which are very personal. E.g., I don't have
kids, so I figure I'm a little less risk averse than a multiple Dad might be.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #17  
Old February 22nd 05, 05:16 PM
Howard Nelson
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"Jack Allison" wrote in message
...
RST Engineering wrote:

Single engine
Night
Mountains


Pick any two.


I was kind of thinking along the same lines. Having flown across the
Sierra Nevada's only a few times in the day, I sure wouldn't want to do
so at night. Even a cloudless full moon night in a brand new high
performance single engine...nope, wouldn't want to do it. Way too much
cumulo-Granite down there. I'd much rather limit my mountain crossings
to the daytime.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Shopping Student


I have flown numerous times single engine, day, over both rockies and
sierras. I don't know what the actual realities are but the sierras are much
more "scary". They rise faster, fewer valleys and more bare rock. I have
always felt that I have had an "out" when flying over the rockies not so the
sierras.

Howard


  #18  
Old February 22nd 05, 06:13 PM
markjenn
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Single engine
Night
Mountains


I don't think single-engine is much risk compared to the other two.

As a non-professional pilot, my my rule-of-thumb is that won't do any two of
the following three:

Night
Mountains
IFR weather (basically in significant flying in clouds)

All three is a huge risk

- Mark


  #19  
Old February 22nd 05, 07:11 PM
Russ MacDonald
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When I was young, I might have tried a trip like this, but the longer I
continue flying, and the longer I stay alive the less I like to take
chances.

You are decreasing your odds of a successful flight by 1) single engine over
mountains, 2) very low power aircraft, and 3) no instrument rating. I
might try one of these variables on a given day, but never all three at one
time.

Night flight is statistically much more dangerous than day flight. Heck,
many countries don't even allow night VFR flight. But, I don't want that
here in the US!! I want the right to make that decision, and the more night
VFR accidents that happen, the more likely night VFR will be banned here as
well.

If you are single engine over the mountains at night, you could easily fly
into a cloud or even icing conditions without knowing it, and without
sufficient instrument training and adequate additional climb capability, you
might not find a way out before hitting something hard.

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
I departed 63S about 7:30pm calm winds and clear skies were being
reported
for the entire trip home over the mountain ranges. I can say that yes it
is
black out there at night and every little noise is amplified when flying
over dark mountainous terrain. The winds were not as expected took 2.7
hours
to fly VFR GPS direct to KYKM. From KYKM to KVUO it took another 2.4 hours
pluss the high clouds blocked out the stars and almost all the moon light.



  #20  
Old February 22nd 05, 07:38 PM
Trent Moorehead
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"Dude" wrote in message
...

That being said, putting a plane like a 150 into the trees isn't

impossible
at all. Simply mushing it into the foliage as slow as possible has been
accomplished many times, even if it is a crap shoot. Given the hieght of
some of those trees would make it interesting to get down afterwards

though.

I've been doing some reading lately that advises pilots to aim for the base
of the trees, not the foliage. Mushing it into the tops of the trees ensures
that you will stall as soon as the plane touches the first treetop. The nose
will drop and you will be going straight down from there. Unless the tree
branches break the fall on the way down, there is a good chance you will not
survive. The taller the trees, the farther you fall, the harder the impact.

If you aim for the base of the trees, you'll be under control as close to
the ground as possible when the stall occurs. You do have to be careful not
to hit a tree trunk head-on, but if you aim right, the wings can be used to
absorb energy, making the deceleration as gradual as possible. It's the
quick deceleration that kills you or renders you unconscious and if there is
a fire you are not getting out.

I also used to think that mushing the plane into the treetops was the way to
go, but obviously I've been rethinking that. And just reading the title of
this thread gives me willies. To be honest, I thought it was a joke or a
hypothetical question, not a recounting of an actual experience. Speaking
for myself only, outright emergencies notwithstanding, you won't find me
"Night flying in the mountains in a cessna 150".

-Trent
PP-ASEL


 




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