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50% of NAZI oil was supplied from US



 
 
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  #91  
Old October 27th 03, 09:01 PM
B2431
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From: "Keith Willshaw"
Date: 10/27/2003 1:37 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message
...
Michael Petukhov wrote in message ...



The Ford plant was hit, using a truck plants as an example
ignores the allies largely ignored such factories in their
target selection, they went for aircraft factories, oil and
transport links and the German cities.


What's amusing about the conspirowhacko sites Michael loves
so much is they always ignore the Opel truck plant,
which was pretty well destroyed by bombing.

Opel was (and still is) owned by General Motors.

Keith

Or DuPont and a few others.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired
Ads
  #92  
Old October 28th 03, 11:57 PM
eravanna
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The article discuss the oil balance of NAZI Germany in 37 - june 44.
The funny side is that some 50% of oil and petrolium products
were supplied by US based companies (the standard oil of New Jersey,
the standard oil of California and the Davis oil company) mainly via
Spain. This includes 100% of oil supply for NAZI subs operating in
Atlantic. All these operations were authorised by US government.

Michael

very smart move on the us part as when we cut the oil off they lost


  #93  
Old October 29th 03, 12:35 AM
E. Barry Bruyea
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On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:57:57 GMT, "eravanna"
wrote:


The article discuss the oil balance of NAZI Germany in 37 - june 44.
The funny side is that some 50% of oil and petrolium products
were supplied by US based companies (the standard oil of New Jersey,
the standard oil of California and the Davis oil company) mainly via
Spain. This includes 100% of oil supply for NAZI subs operating in
Atlantic. All these operations were authorised by US government.

Michael

very smart move on the us part as when we cut the oil off they lost



It's also pure, unadulterated bull****.


  #94  
Old October 29th 03, 06:30 PM
monkey
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E. Barry Bruyea wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:57:57 GMT, "eravanna"
wrote:


The article discuss the oil balance of NAZI Germany in 37 - june 44.
The funny side is that some 50% of oil and petrolium products
were supplied by US based companies (the standard oil of New Jersey,
the standard oil of California and the Davis oil company) mainly via
Spain. This includes 100% of oil supply for NAZI subs operating in
Atlantic. All these operations were authorised by US government.

Michael

very smart move on the us part as when we cut the oil off they lost



It's also pure, unadulterated bull****.

yah, you know the funny thing, i'm sure it's true because the good 'ol
US of A will do anything for money, as history has proven time and
again, even if it is against its own stated democratic principles. I'm
sure that lots of businesses made a wad of cash off WWI and WWII and
lots of other wars while allies were dying. The whole argument of
whether or not the nation was a stated ally is bull****. The US knew
what was going on in both wars for years, knew about all the brutal
**** the axis were doing, and basically ignored it and made money off
it for years while other countries were spilling blood to save
themselves.The US will never change. You know, it's completely OK for
the war to go on in Europe but as soon as Pearl harbour, well now it's
a big deal. Just like 9-11. Look at all the nations dealing with
terrorism every day of their lives, then the WTC happens and suddenly
this becomes the greatest atrocity committed, and terrorism is a big
f%^&ing deal. Give me a break. In the big scheme of things, it is a
pretty puny occurrence. To me this oil discussion is a great example
of the american government's traditional policy of downplaying every
tragedy or confict in this world, making money off of it, and then
when it inevitably extends to its border decrying it and making it a
big fricking deal.
  #95  
Old October 29th 03, 07:05 PM
Keith Willshaw
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"monkey" wrote in message
om...


yah, you know the funny thing, i'm sure it's true because the good 'ol
US of A will do anything for money, as history has proven time and
again, even if it is against its own stated democratic principles.



So facts are irrelevant - OK

I'm
sure that lots of businesses made a wad of cash off WWI and WWII and
lots of other wars while allies were dying. The whole argument of
whether or not the nation was a stated ally is bull****. The US knew
what was going on in both wars for years, knew about all the brutal
**** the axis were doing, and basically ignored it and made money off
it for years while other countries were spilling blood to save
themselves.The US will never change. You know, it's completely OK for
the war to go on in Europe but as soon as Pearl harbour, well now it's
a big deal.


So you have dont know that the Lend Lease bill preceded Pearl Harbor
I take it

I suppose the fact that the USN was escorting convoys in the
North Atlantic BEFORE Pearl Harbor is news to you too.

And I imagine you missed the fact that Japan decided to attack
because the US had placed an emargo on sales of oil and
other materials on them because of their aggression in China.

Fact is the USA was providing us in Britain with assistance that went
wway beyond the bounds of neutrality long before the Germans
declared war on them.

Keith


  #96  
Old October 29th 03, 07:32 PM
Peter H. Granzeau
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On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:05:59 -0000, "Keith Willshaw"
wrote:

So you have dont know that the Lend Lease bill preceded Pearl Harbor
I take it

I suppose the fact that the USN was escorting convoys in the
North Atlantic BEFORE Pearl Harbor is news to you too.

And I imagine you missed the fact that Japan decided to attack
because the US had placed an emargo on sales of oil and
other materials on them because of their aggression in China.

Fact is the USA was providing us in Britain with assistance that went
wway beyond the bounds of neutrality long before the Germans
declared war on them.


All of which are reasons for Germany and Japan to believe that the USA
was hostile. THat wouldn't be the first time that the USA acted at
complete cross purposes to itself, nor the last.
  #97  
Old October 29th 03, 10:55 PM
Keith Willshaw
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Peter H. Granzeau" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:05:59 -0000, "Keith Willshaw"
wrote:

So you have dont know that the Lend Lease bill preceded Pearl Harbor
I take it

I suppose the fact that the USN was escorting convoys in the
North Atlantic BEFORE Pearl Harbor is news to you too.

And I imagine you missed the fact that Japan decided to attack
because the US had placed an emargo on sales of oil and
other materials on them because of their aggression in China.

Fact is the USA was providing us in Britain with assistance that went
wway beyond the bounds of neutrality long before the Germans
declared war on them.


All of which are reasons for Germany and Japan to believe that the USA
was hostile. THat wouldn't be the first time that the USA acted at
complete cross purposes to itself, nor the last.


I can certainly understand that Japan and Germany could and did
believe the US was hostile. What I dont see is how that put the
USA at cross purposes with itself.

Do you see an advantage to the US in allowing Japan to
dominate the Pacific and/or Nazi Germany to dominate
Europe ?

Keith


  #99  
Old October 30th 03, 06:29 AM
The Enlightenment
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Default

(monkey) wrote in message . com...
E. Barry Bruyea wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:57:57 GMT, "eravanna"
wrote:


The article discuss the oil balance of NAZI Germany in 37 - june 44.
The funny side is that some 50% of oil and petrolium products
were supplied by US based companies (the standard oil of New Jersey,
the standard oil of California and the Davis oil company) mainly via
Spain. This includes 100% of oil supply for NAZI subs operating in
Atlantic. All these operations were authorised by US government.

Michael
very smart move on the us part as when we cut the oil off they lost



It's also pure, unadulterated bull****.

yah, you know the funny thing, i'm sure it's true because the good 'ol
US of A will do anything for money, as history has proven time and
again, even if it is against its own stated democratic principles.


Their democratic principles are also national prnciples. Waging war
on behalf of imposing those principles was most definetlyu NOT one of
them.

I'm
sure that lots of businesses made a wad of cash off WWI and WWII and
lots of other wars while allies were dying.


A lote lost a lot. I take you point. Irresponsible elites drag us
into stupid wars.

The whole argument of
whether or not the nation was a stated ally is bull****. The US knew
what was going on in both wars for years, knew about all the brutal
**** the axis were doing, and basically ignored it and made money off
it for years while other countries were spilling blood to save
themselves.


You Can't substantiate that.

Actually one of the reasons the US population was reluctant to enter
the war was because during the frist world war UK disinformation and
propaganda had created a number of serious anti-german allegations
that were expoosed as fraudulent including and not limited to:
1 The Germans were throwing babies into the air and catching them on
Bayonets.
(I believe the Japanese coped this one in WW2 in Malaya as well)
2 The Germans were raping ALL the Belgian women.
3 The Germans were turning Belgian and French corpses into soap.

The disinformation was first used to incite the British people into
war and then to draw the Americans in. ("We could all be Dead in 45
minutes" Tony Blair in parlaiment)

The frauds and docotored photographs were exposed and the British
being rather Gentlemently actualy appologised.

Americans were thus disinclined to be drawn into WW2 or even to
believe the concentration camp stuff after the war. (The soap stuff
certainly is a concoction)


*********************

One of the most most enraging documents in Hansard is the
report of the Commons debate the day before war was
declared
in 1914 and Britain entered the most disastrous conflict
in
its and Europe's history. It is clear from Hansard
that
the grave and novel dangers of entering into a war
with
modern technology were understood by many MPs. Worse,
from
the pathetic evasions of the Foreign Secretary, Sir
Edward
Grey, it is clear that Parliament and consequently
the
British people had been kept in the dark over
secret
agreements between the British and French Governments,
which
obligated Britain to go to war if France was attacked.
And
so off Britain went to war, ostensibly because of an
1839
treaty Britain had signed guaranteeing
Belgium's
sovereignty, but in reality because the British elite of
the
time had committed itself to the French elite without
any
Parliamentary oversight or agreement.



http://64.143.9.197/books/connors/dealinginhate.html

"To make matters still worse, the British foreign secretary, Sir
Edward Grey, even refused to promise British neutrality during the
Franco-German (1st world war) war in return for a German counter
promise to respect Belgian territory!"

The simple truth is that, as Grey later admitted, Britain was so
committed to the support of France by secret agreements that, with or
without the invasion of Belgium, she would have entered the war.
Otherwise he would have felt compelled to resign. Indeed, it is
evident from John Morley's famous Memorandum On Resignation as well as
from the personal assurance of John Burns to Professor Barnes that the
actual decision of the British Cabinet to go to war was made before
the matter of Belgian was even mentioned!"


Can anyone be assure that the follishness of WWI that lead to a
Whit eracial bloodbath has been learned?

************************************************** *************
http://64.143.9.197/books/connors/dealinginhate.html

In this connection, the invasion of "little Belgium" was widely
advertised as a particularly reprehensible though typical
manifestation of a brutal and ruthless German policy. On the other
hand, the entry of Britain into the war for the ostensible purpose of
defending Belgian territorial integrity received almost universal
acclaim. The posture of a crusading knight on a white steed charging
to the defense of the outraged little country was, despite its
essential falsity, assumed with relish and exploited with consummate
skill by pro-British propagandists.

The shabby dishonesty of this posture becomes evident when we realize
that during a Franco-German crisis in 1887, at a time when
Anglo-German relations were most cordial, the British press had openly
and unashamedly discussed the advisability of giving the green light
to the German army to cross Belgium for the purpose of initiating
military operations against France. Finally, the British minister,
Lord Vivian, informed the distraught Belgian government that Belgium
would have to prepare to act alone in such a contingency. As Professor
Langer aptly remarks, "considering all this, it is hardly possible to
take the denials of the British government during the World War very
seriously."

As a further commentary on alleged Allied "idealism" in this matter we
may cite the facts, since uncovered, that the Anglo-French war plans
of 1911, 1912, and 1913 themselves contemplated the violation of
Belgian territorial integrity in certain circumstances that might
arise during a war with Germany!

"To make matters still worse, the British foreign secretary, Sir
Edward Grey, even refused to promise British neutrality during the
Franco-German war in return for a German counter promise to respect
Belgian territory!"

The simple truth is that, as Grey later admitted, Britain was so
committed to the support of France by secret agreements that, with or
without the invasion of Belgium, she would have entered the war.
Otherwise he would have felt compelled to resign. Indeed, it is
evident from John Morley's famous Memorandum On Resignation as well as
from the personal assurance of John Burns to Professor Barnes that the
actual decision of the British Cabinet to go to war was made before
the matter of Belgian was even mentioned!



The Allies, and particularly Great Britain, by contrast, proved
themselves most capable of adroitly manipulating world opinion by
widespread diffusion of fantastic tales of German villainy. Britain,
of course, had the additional technical advantage of control of the
cables and hence could rigidly censor all news coming to America. As
C. Hartley Grattan expressed it, "honest, unbiased news simply
disappeared out of the American papers along about the middle of
August, 1914."44

Incredible tales of German barbarism in Belgium and France gave rise
to a myth of unique German savagery that continues to color the
thinking of many persons to this day. German soldiers, the world was
gravely informed, amused themselves by cutting off the hands of
Belgian babies. Another oft-repeated tale related how German soldiers
amputated the breasts of Belgian women out of sheer viciousness. A
slightly different variation of this story asserted that the
amputation had been carried out by syphilitic Germans who, having
ravished the women, wished to warn their countrymen thereby. There
were persistent rumors about the crucifixion of Canadian soldiers.
Perhaps the most repulsive and widely circulated of these fabrications
was that concerning a German corpse factory where the bodies of both
Allied and German soldiers killed in battle were allegedly melted down
for fats and other products useful to the German war effort. The fact
that Arthur Ponsonby utterly demolished the canard45 did not prevent
the Soviets from charging again at Nuremberg that during World War II
a "Danzig firm ... constructed an electrically heated tank for making
soap out of human fat."46

Atrocity propaganda was immeasurably effective in the United States
during the first World War. When in the American papers of May 11-12,
1915, which was during the very week following the torpedoing of the
Lusitania, there appeared the notorious Bryce Report on alleged German
atrocities, American indignation at Germany reached a blind and
febrile peak. The membership of the Bryce Committee, appointed by
Parliament to investigate reports of alleged German atrocities,
comprised some of the most distinguished jurists and historians in
great Britain. To Americans it seemed that the chairman, Viscount
Bryce, was one Briton who would never offer himself as the tool of
tendentious propaganda. Bryce was a scholar of profound erudition and
was considered by many to be the ablest foreign student of American
government and institutions.

The "proofs" advanced by the Bryce Committee in support of the wildest
tales of German fiendishness, as well as the methods employed in
gathering them, violated every elementary rule of evidence. Careful
non-German scholars, above all Arthur Ponsonby, have long since
demonstrated the entire project to have been a tissue of distortions
and outright falsehoods.47 Evidently, Bryce and his esteemed
colleagues had few qualms about perverting the truth if it redounded
to the benefit of what they termed the "high cause" of Mother England.
In later years other scholars in both Britain and America would
display a similar willingness to prostitute talent and reputation in
the interest of writing vicious propaganda.

The grave consequences of all this lurid atrocity propaganda can
hardly be exaggerated. Indeed, "propaganda" of atrocities ... might be
said to have contributed more than any other single factor to the
making of a severe peace."48 The extreme severity of that peace, it
should be pointed out, provided certain assurance of the rise of
Hitler or someone like him who would beguile the long-suffering and
much-maligned German people with promises to snap the chains of
slavery forged by the untried and unpunished "war criminals" of
Versailles.
 




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