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50% of NAZI oil was supplied from US



 
 
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  #41  
Old October 20th 03, 04:38 PM
Keith Willshaw
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wrote in message
...
In article ,
362436 (Ron) wrote:

Oh I guess those German submarines must have stopped into US Harbors

during
WW2, to replenish oil supplies, after raiding our convoys.


try the canary islands.


Try again

Much to the displeasure of the Germans the Spaniards interned
a number of U-boat crews that turned up in the Canary Islands and
they were desperately short of fuel themselves

see
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/wwii/spain/sp16.htm

You'll find that oil imports to Spain were only allowed
on the basis that Spain distance itself from the Axis.

The only real concession the spaniards made was agreeing
to turn a blind eye to the presence of german tankers in
Spanish territorial waters.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/wwii/spain/sp10.htm
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/wwii/spain/sp11.htm

Keith


Ads
  #42  
Old October 20th 03, 06:29 PM
yp11
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:57:04 GMT, "captain! - the village idiot"
wrote:

and what should we do with spammers mike?

Another gem from the biggest spammer in this group - captain, the
village idiot.
  #43  
Old October 20th 03, 06:43 PM
Frank Liu
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So admit you're a troll? Okay...

Frank Liu

"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om...
"Michael Mcneil" wrote in message

news:[email protected] e.mailgate.org...
If you must feed them:

Change the title; remove cross postings; remove all reference to them;
write a completely uninflamatory few lines that touch -as this does,
only tangentially what they initiated; make salient counter arguments
about almost irrelevant topics and then bring it around in later
messages to what the fool was talking about. That way he will have to
lose his advert, the title of the thread.

What you must aim for is removing his name and fame. Next remove his
topic then bring it back as a rebuff by making a statement that answered
his original post. Better still, ignore him.


Hm. It will not work. Simply because I post interesting things.
even you cannot ignore it.

Michael



  #44  
Old October 20th 03, 07:43 PM
Peter H. Granzeau
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:49:28 -0700, Steve Hix
wrote:

Yeah, you guys (Soviets) were just the main supplier of oil to Germany
from the time the U.S. entered the war until Barbarossa.


What kind of time warp was this?

Operation Barbarossa kicked off on 22 June 1941.

The USA entered the war against Germany on 11 December 1941 (when
Germany declared war on the USA).
  #45  
Old October 20th 03, 09:16 PM
Michael Petukhov
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"Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message ...
This will probably appear in the wrong place thanks to a bad
news server.

Michael Petukhov wrote in message ...
http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_art...=16866&lang=ru

(in russian)

The article discuss the oil balance of NAZI Germany in 37 - june 44.
The funny side is that some 50% of oil and petrolium products
were supplied by US based companies (the standard oil of New Jersey,
the standard oil of California and the Davis oil company) mainly via
Spain. This includes 100% of oil supply for NAZI subs operating in
Atlantic. All these operations were authorised by US government.


I see someone is writing bad fiction and others are trying
to believe it.

The allied air offensive against Germany's oil supplies
means the German oil situation has been well documented.

Germany's oil imports, crude oil, fuels and lubricants, 1933
2,703,000, 1934 3,158,000, 1935 3,792,000, 1936
4,216,000, 1937 4,307,000, 1938 4,967,000 metric tons.
The increase is due to the economic recovery and stockpiling.

Germany had 2,134,000 metric tons of oil stocks on 1 August
1939, excluding the west fortification zone. Oil production in
greater Germany 1940 to 1944 was 29,482,000 metric tons,
this includes things like liquid gases.


In 30 mil tons/5= 6 mil tons/year in agreement with data present
in the article.


If you just want to go on the avgas, motor vehicle fuel and diesel
oil then stocks as of September 1939 were 1,241,000 tons,
production and imports 1940 to 1944 were 23,975,000 metric
tons of which 7,492,000 metric tons were imports.


So 24 or 7.5 mil tons?

Note imports
include over 1,000,000 tons of captured fuel and fuel sent directly
from Romania to the German army in the East.


Romania was German ally till 44. why to capture?


Rather hard for the US to supply half of Germany's oil needs
unless there were large multi million ton imports in the 1937
to 1939 period, which clearly did not happen as the import
figures and 1939 fuel reserves figures show.


Which import? US one? Maybe. How about Mexican, Venezuelian,
S. African export under Standard oil control?

Diesel production
1940 to 1944 amounted to 5,427,000 tons, imports another
2,327,000 tons, stocks as of September 1939 298,000 tons.
The U-boats were the big users of diesel, again rather hard
for the US to supply 100% of the U-boat fuel.


The article says that above mentioned oil was mainly supplied to
Canaries where it was partly refined partly reloaded to Spanish
tankers to be delivered in Mediterian ports under germany control.


It would be good to know which country's ships were being
used to transport the oil, the allies were always short of
tankers until very late in the war. Spain in 1939 had some
16 tankers, or 86,000 Gross registered tons (ships of
1,600 GRT or larger).


Well the artcile says that on the route from Americas to Canaries
the Standard's tankers fleet under Panama flags were used. after
that on the way from canaries to mediterian ports spanish tankers
were used. The numbers fits. one week round trip 86000 tons*52=
4.5 mil tons/year plus german sub fleet refuelling in canaries
until 44 at least 1 mil tons /year plus unknown amount of
refulling of german subs in bases of S. America organized by
Davis oil company.

All around import from US companies 6 mil tons/year.


In the time period 1 September 1939 to 22 June 1941 the
USSR supplied over 1,000,000 tons of petroleum products
to Germany out of over 3,500,000 tons of supplies. Then
add another 380,000 tons from Japan and 80,000 tons
from Afghanistan and Iran the USSR allowed to be
shipped through the USSR. See the Economic Blockade
by W N Medlicott, which goes into great detail about
Germany's imports from neutral countries, it includes
detailed tables from Sweden, Turkey, Spain, Portugal,
French North Africa and the USSR. It goes into the
negotiations the allies undertook with the neutrals to
minimise their trade with Germany and ensure they were
not used for blockade breaking.


Indeed. However none after june 22, 1941 form USSR
while Spanish oil was in fact 100% US one.

Michael

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.

  #46  
Old October 20th 03, 09:20 PM
ZZBunker
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kirill wrote in message ...
"Fred J. McCall" wrote:

(Michael Petukhov) wrote:

:
http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_art...=16866&lang=ru
:
in russian)
:
:The article discuss the oil balance of NAZI Germany in 37 - june 44.
:The funny side is that some 50% of oil and petrolium products
:were supplied by US based companies (the standard oil of New Jersey,
:the standard oil of California and the Davis oil company) mainly via
:Spain. This includes 100% of oil supply for NAZI subs operating in
:Atlantic. All these operations were authorised by US government.

That's because we were a NEUTRAL until the end of 1941, Michael. You
do understand what that means, don't you?


Dipwad loser. The British weren't neutral and you were their alleged
allies. Retard.

Hell, we traded with Stalin, too, and he was at least as big a butcher
as Hitler was.


Another self-appointed expert on nothing spewing drivel. Hitler and his
allies killed 27 million Soviet citizens including 18 million civilians
(the average civilian to soldier death ratio for WWII was 2:1). Basically
all the estimates of deaths in the USSR after the revolution that come
up with the 25 million dead figure include the civil war that killed
10 million people (Stalin wasn't in charge but Lenin and Trotsky were)
and the forced collectivization famines (Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Russia)
where part of the blaim for the famine rests with scorched earth tactics
by farmers resisting expropriation (i.e. burning of crops and killing
of livestock).

Nothing beats Hitler in the number of state crime deaths in the USSR.
Nothing beats Hitler for the number of state crime deaths in the
rest of Europe either.


Hilter doesn't even compare to Napeleon in the
number of state crimes deaths in the USSR.
That is due to the condition that is you ever
read any of Hilters writings, you would obviously
notice that the very last thing Hilter
ever seemed to worry about in his life
were the rantings of Commies, and their so-called state.
  #47  
Old October 20th 03, 10:02 PM
B2431
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From: (Grantland)
Date: 10/17/2003 9:23 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

(B2431) lied:

snip

"Out of 556 important functionaries of the Bolshevik State. . .
There Were in 1918-1919: 457 Jews
17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Letts, 15 Germans, 1
Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 3 Poles, 3 Finns, 1 Karaim."

The Last Days of the Romanovs, by Robert Wilton. Introduction by Mark
Weber. Institute for Historical Review, 1993.

"The whole record of Bolshevism in Russia is indelibly impressed with
the stamp of alien invasion. The murder of the Tsar, deliberately
planned by the Jew Sverdlov (who came to Russia as a paid agent of
Germany) and carried out by the Jews Goloshchekin, Syromolotov,
Safarov, Voikov and Yurovsky, is the act not of the Russian people,
but of this hostile invader."ibid


snip a bunch of drivel

Even if what you say about Jews being the killers of the Romanovs, a major
force in the Bolshevik revolution etc. That doesn't have anything to do with
what was said about Stalin's butchery. Sure Stalin wouldn't have been in

power
if not for the October Revolution etc. but he was also antisemitic, anti

God,
exnophobic, paranoid, sociopathic and a mass murderer in the extreme.

Your claim that the Jews were invaders is false. Jews had been in Eastern
Europe and Russia for a very long time. The ones who lived in Russia were

just
as Russian as any other citizen.

The source you cited probably finds Jews behind every tree and blames them

for
everything negative he percieves.

Stop blaming the Germans, Jews, foreigners etc. for the slaughter of many
millions of human beings by the Soviets with Stalin as head. Next you will
blame the Chinese Communist revolution, the Great Leap Forward and Cultural
Revolution with the millions of associated deaths on Jews.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired


Groups search result 4 for ZIONISM versus BOLSHEVISM churchill


snip a whole bunch of stuff which doesn't prove me wrong

Calling me a liar doesn't change the facts.
Since you have decided to start name calling instead of debating you are hereby
dismissed.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired
  #48  
Old October 20th 03, 11:00 PM
Steve Hix
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In article ,
Peter Kemp [email protected] wrote:

On or about Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:49:28 -0700, Steve Hix
allegedly uttered:

In article ,
kirill wrote:

JÜrg Bihlmayr wrote:

Michael Petukhov schrieb:

http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_art...=16866&lang=ru

(in russian)

The article discuss the oil balance of NAZI Germany in 37 - june 44.
The funny side is that some 50% of oil and petrolium products
were supplied by US based companies (the standard oil of New Jersey,
the standard oil of California and the Davis oil company) mainly via
Spain. This includes 100% of oil supply for NAZI subs operating in
Atlantic. All these operations were authorised by US government.

Care to mention, who the other big supplier of oil to Germany until 1941
was?

Pathetic attempt at diversion from a lamer. The USSR was a big supplier
of grain to Germany before 1941. It simply does not compare in the sort
of industrial and oil assistance offered the Nazis by eager western
companies (mainly American ones such as Ford and GM).


Yeah, you guys (Soviets) were just the main supplier of oil to Germany
from the time the U.S. entered the war until Barbarossa.


Err, wasn't Barbarossa (June 22 1941) *before* the entry of the US
(December 7 1941)?


Dang...of course you're right.

....from the beginning of the war in late '39 until Barbarossa. U.S. had
quit most fuel exports to Germany when the war began in Europe.
  #49  
Old October 20th 03, 11:02 PM
Steve Hix
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In article [email protected],
Peter H. Granzeau wrote:

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:49:28 -0700, Steve Hix
wrote:

Yeah, you guys (Soviets) were just the main supplier of oil to Germany
from the time the U.S. entered the war until Barbarossa.


What kind of time warp was this?

Operation Barbarossa kicked off on 22 June 1941.

The USA entered the war against Germany on 11 December 1941 (when
Germany declared war on the USA).


Yeah, I know. (It was late, and I was still dehydrated from a day out
in the sun...which we're still getting here, if not the 90+ temps the
midwest seems to be getting.)
  #50  
Old October 20th 03, 11:14 PM
E. Barry Bruyea
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:43:18 -0400, Peter H. Granzeau
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:49:28 -0700, Steve Hix
wrote:

Yeah, you guys (Soviets) were just the main supplier of oil to Germany
from the time the U.S. entered the war until Barbarossa.


What kind of time warp was this?

Operation Barbarossa kicked off on 22 June 1941.

The USA entered the war against Germany on 11 December 1941 (when
Germany declared war on the USA).



His dates were wrong, but the facts are correct. The USSR was the
single largest supplier of oil to Nazi Germany up until the day the
Germans invaded the Soviet Union. Trains were still rolling into
Germany from the USSR loaded with oil and other strategic materials as
the Germans crossed into Soviet Territory. As a matter of interest, I
believe Sweden was the next largest supplier. Sweden bought oil from
foreign sources and resold it to the Germans.

 




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