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Plane with no stall warning device?



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 15th 04, 09:33 PM
Roy Smith
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Default Plane with no stall warning device?

Researching a question from a club member, I read in the FAR's:

§**23.207 *Stall warning.
[...]
(b) The stall warning may be furnished either through the inherent
aerodynamic qualities of the airplane or by a device that will give
clearly distinguishable indications under expected conditions of flight.

Every plane I've ever flown has a mechanical stall warning device (some
visual, some aural), but apparantly it's possible to certify a plane
without one. Does anybody know of any real life examples of planes
certified without stall warning devices?
  #2  
Old January 16th 04, 01:53 AM
mikem
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Roy Smith wrote:
Researching a question from a club member, I read in the FAR's:

§ 23.207 Stall warning.
[...]
(b) The stall warning may be furnished either through the inherent
aerodynamic qualities of the airplane or by a device that will give
clearly distinguishable indications under expected conditions of flight.

Every plane I've ever flown has a mechanical stall warning device (some
visual, some aural), but apparantly it's possible to certify a plane
without one. Does anybody know of any real life examples of planes
certified without stall warning devices?


Roy,

I own a Piper Pacer (PA22/20, Tripacer converted to Tailwheel
configuration) It was originally built by Piper in 1958 (fairly late
model as TriPacers go). It has no stall warning vane/switch/horn/light,
and never had one. None of the PA12/14/20/22 series do. Dunno about
PA18.

This one has STCed add-on very droopy wingtips (inverted winglet). The
stall is very benign. Prestall indication is a slight buffet, followed
by the nose dropping (assuming you keep the yoke full back, i.e. you
are not proactively helping it recover), followed by self recovery as
a slight dive, followed by the nose going back up again for another
mini-stall... Sort of a "nodding" motion.

btw- the stall occurs at an indicated airspeed of ~45mph...

MikeM
PA22/20 Pacer '00Z see
http://home.utah.edu/~mgm17160/Island/flying.jpg

  #3  
Old January 16th 04, 01:56 AM
Ron Natalie
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"Roy Smith" wrote in message ...


Every plane I've ever flown has a mechanical stall warning device (some
visual, some aural), but apparantly it's possible to certify a plane
without one. Does anybody know of any real life examples of planes
certified without stall warning devices?


Navions don't have one. I believe it's optional on Maules.

  #4  
Old January 16th 04, 02:17 AM
Mike O'Malley
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"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
Researching a question from a club member, I read in the FAR's:

§ 23.207 Stall warning.
[...]
(b) The stall warning may be furnished either through the inherent
aerodynamic qualities of the airplane or by a device that will give
clearly distinguishable indications under expected conditions of flight.

Every plane I've ever flown has a mechanical stall warning device (some
visual, some aural), but apparantly it's possible to certify a plane
without one. Does anybody know of any real life examples of planes
certified without stall warning devices?


Planes I've flown without stall warning devices:
Bellanca 7ECA Citabria
Piper J3 Cub
Piper PA11 Cub
Piper PA12 Super Cruiser
Piper PA18 Super Cub

Many older aircraft do not have them, heck, the stall horn in a C172
startled me for a second after flying rag wing Pipers for a few hundred
hours...

--
Mike


  #5  
Old January 16th 04, 02:26 AM
Don Tuite
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Add my Taylorcraft BC12D. But most of these were CAA.

Don
  #6  
Old January 16th 04, 02:35 AM
Roy Smith
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In article ,
"Ron Natalie" wrote:

Navions don't have one. I believe it's optional on Maules.


Are these CAR-3 or a FAR-23?

Now that I think about it, I've flown a Decathlon. I honestly don't
remember if it had a stall warning or not. My recollection is you knew
you were stalled when you saw the ground going round-and-round :-)
  #7  
Old January 16th 04, 04:33 AM
Orval Fairbairn
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In article ,
Roy Smith wrote:

Researching a question from a club member, I read in the FAR's:

§**23.207 *Stall warning.
[...]
(b) The stall warning may be furnished either through the inherent
aerodynamic qualities of the airplane or by a device that will give
clearly distinguishable indications under expected conditions of flight.

Every plane I've ever flown has a mechanical stall warning device (some
visual, some aural), but apparantly it's possible to certify a plane
without one. Does anybody know of any real life examples of planes
certified without stall warning devices?


My Johnson Rocket has no stall warning devise, nor stall strips, yet it
gives a nice, straight-ahead stall, with plenty of warning, and was a
real hot rod by 1946 standards.
  #9  
Old January 16th 04, 05:14 AM
Don Tuite
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On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:49:16 -0000, Marty Shapiro
wrote:

The SOCATA Rallye does NOT have a stall warning device!

It has automatic leading edge slats which will pop out at larger angels of
attack, but you are still well above stall.

A power off stall is very interesting in this aircraft. You start to get
stall buffett and, if you simply hold the yoke all the way back, you
descend a little over 1000 fpm with the nose level on the horizon. You can
turn with just the ailerons as you are descending.


What happens if you yank the sitck back?

Or if you start to apply rudder to accelerate a turn and then apply
opposite aileron to keep from banking too steeply and just keep on
crossing the controls while you bleed off airspeed?

Just curious. I'm sure the results in the Socata are benign.

Don
  #10  
Old January 16th 04, 05:21 AM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

Researching a question from a club member, I read in the FAR's:

§ 23.207 Stall warning.
[...]
(b) The stall warning may be furnished either through the inherent
aerodynamic qualities of the airplane or by a device that will give
clearly distinguishable indications under expected conditions of flight.

Every plane I've ever flown has a mechanical stall warning device (some
visual, some aural), but apparantly it's possible to certify a plane
without one. Does anybody know of any real life examples of planes
certified without stall warning devices?


My Aeronca 7AC has no mechanical stall warning device. Few aircraft of that
vintage do.


 




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