Odyssey Battery-Jerry Springer

Okay Jerry, I took your advice and spent $135 bucks today for an
Odyssey 16 Amp-hr dry cell that weighs 15 pounds (the 680). I cut the
aluminum for a bracket on the gyroscope to mount it but I gotta get
Kevin to TIG weld it later today.

As far as the battery goes, I hope that MOFO spools me up more than
once and still starts the Rotax 582 to boot. I don't know how much
current I'm pulling on the startup of the main rotor system but I'm
using jumper cable wire and it heats up. I think I'll hand start the
blades a bit first instead of just doing the dead start because the
dead start looks like a dead short for the first few seconds of the
sequence. When I was buying this battery at the store the guys there
told me it was designed for Harley's of all things. They also told me
that a battery that cost's half as much is the Deka Battery. But, the
Deka does have a vent and it's a high pressure vent, where the Odyssey
has none and no acid can leak out.

I've not been to the Deka site to see the specs but I do have a spec
sheet. Nowhere does it say that you can deep discharge this baby like
the Odyssey and recharge it completely--400 times. Jesus...400 deep
cycle recharges on the odyssey and they warrantee it. That's kicking
some tall ass to do that.

Another goofy thing about the Odyssey is that you can't recharge it
using a trickle charger. Less than 1.25 Amps won't put all the energy
back into the battery. You have to use a 10 Amp charger to get back
to full energy. Anybody know the chemistry behind that? I don't get
it. Lead peroxide is lead peroxide. When you drive the sulfate off
the lead atom and reattach an oxygen, what the hell difference does it
make how fast you do it (high Amps)? The only thing I can think of is
that the battery itself has an internal resistance of 7 Ohms so the
higher the current, the higher the temperature of the battery itself.
And, as you all know, for every 10 degrees Centigrade, the chemical
reactivity rate coefficient doubles. So, the rate constant will be
higher for the charge cycle on a hot battery. They say you can
completely recharge this baby in 2 hours if you use 10 Amps. I'm
thinking that it heats up...that's why!

Badwater "I got me a new stinking battery" Bill

Ouch, :-( Sunn battery has them for $74.00+ $5.00 shipping. That was in
my first message about the battery. I hope it works for you Bill, really
works great in my RV. Better than any Gell cell, or RG battery I have
ever tried before.
http://sunnbattery.com/item.jhtml?UC...0&PRID=1292858
Jerry

Badwater Bill wrote:
Okay Jerry, I took your advice and spent $135 bucks today for an
Odyssey 16 Amp-hr dry cell that weighs 15 pounds (the 680). I cut the
aluminum for a bracket on the gyroscope to mount it but I gotta get
Kevin to TIG weld it later today.

As far as the battery goes, I hope that MOFO spools me up more than
once and still starts the Rotax 582 to boot. I don't know how much
current I'm pulling on the startup of the main rotor system but I'm
using jumper cable wire and it heats up. I think I'll hand start the
blades a bit first instead of just doing the dead start because the
dead start looks like a dead short for the first few seconds of the
sequence. When I was buying this battery at the store the guys there
told me it was designed for Harley's of all things. They also told me
that a battery that cost's half as much is the Deka Battery. But, the
Deka does have a vent and it's a high pressure vent, where the Odyssey
has none and no acid can leak out.

I've not been to the Deka site to see the specs but I do have a spec
sheet. Nowhere does it say that you can deep discharge this baby like
the Odyssey and recharge it completely--400 times. Jesus...400 deep
cycle recharges on the odyssey and they warrantee it. That's kicking
some tall ass to do that.

Another goofy thing about the Odyssey is that you can't recharge it
using a trickle charger. Less than 1.25 Amps won't put all the energy
back into the battery. You have to use a 10 Amp charger to get back
to full energy. Anybody know the chemistry behind that? I don't get
it. Lead peroxide is lead peroxide. When you drive the sulfate off
the lead atom and reattach an oxygen, what the hell difference does it
make how fast you do it (high Amps)? The only thing I can think of is
that the battery itself has an internal resistance of 7 Ohms so the
higher the current, the higher the temperature of the battery itself.
And, as you all know, for every 10 degrees Centigrade, the chemical
reactivity rate coefficient doubles. So, the rate constant will be
higher for the charge cycle on a hot battery. They say you can
completely recharge this baby in 2 hours if you use 10 Amps. I'm
thinking that it heats up...that's why!

Badwater "I got me a new stinking battery" Bill

Okay Jerry, I took your advice and spent $135 bucks today for an
Odyssey 16 Amp-hr dry cell that weighs 15 pounds (the 680). I cut the
aluminum for a bracket on the gyroscope to mount it but I gotta get
Kevin to TIG weld it later today.

Badwater "I got me a new stinking battery" Bill
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I ain't no genius, but my thoughts are that....
the Odyssey battery is all wrong for your application.

Now go ahead and make a fool of me. g


Barnyard BOb -- needing of a large charge

Barnyard BOb -- wrote:

Okay Jerry, I took your advice and spent $135 bucks today for an
Odyssey 16 Amp-hr dry cell that weighs 15 pounds (the 680). I cut the
aluminum for a bracket on the gyroscope to mount it but I gotta get
Kevin to TIG weld it later today.


Badwater "I got me a new stinking battery" Bill

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I ain't no genius, but my thoughts are that....
the Odyssey battery is all wrong for your application.

Now go ahead and make a fool of me. g


Barnyard BOb -- needing of a large charge

If he is using a battery which one would work better Bob?

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 00:41:14 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:



Barnyard BOb -- wrote:

Okay Jerry, I took your advice and spent $135 bucks today for an
Odyssey 16 Amp-hr dry cell that weighs 15 pounds (the 680). I cut the
aluminum for a bracket on the gyroscope to mount it but I gotta get
Kevin to TIG weld it later today.


Badwater "I got me a new stinking battery" Bill

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I ain't no genius, but my thoughts are that....
the Odyssey battery is all wrong for your application.

Now go ahead and make a fool of me. g


Barnyard BOb -- needing of a large charge

If he is using a battery which one would work better Bob?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

How about a_40 lb_Odyssey, Jerry? g

The first concern is to successfully SIZE the battery
to this unique demanding application. A 16 amp-hour
Odyssey is going to empty out pretty quick unless one
is willing to start the blades rotating by hand. If one has
to do that, one may decide that the starter, battery, etc are
not worth all the time, effort, weight, complexity and cost.

OTOH......
just keep upsizing the battery until satisfactory performance
is achieved or the gyro is too heavy to fly. g

All this is going through my mind without a shred of
practical experience. So.... take it for what it's worth.


Barnyard BOb -- thinking out loud

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:32:20 GMT, (Badwater
Bill) wrote:

Another goofy thing about the Odyssey is that you can't recharge it
using a trickle charger. Less than 1.25 Amps won't put all the energy
back into the battery. You have to use a 10 Amp charger to get back
to full energy.

From their data, it looks like the charge efficiency sharply decreases
below 0.1C (1C = rated A-h @ 10h discharge rate). This is 1.6A for
your battery. Note that this only applies to a fully discharged
battery.

Anybody know the chemistry behind that? I don't get
it. Lead peroxide is lead peroxide. When you drive the sulfate off
the lead atom and reattach an oxygen, what the hell difference does it
make how fast you do it (high Amps)?

Hawker doesn't say specifically, but reading between the lines it
looks like it could be a function of the small amount of tin that's
added to the lead in the plates. This is done to increase service
life for deep-discharge applications. Don't ask me about tin
chemistry, though. I'm an electronics weenie.

The only thing I can think of is
that the battery itself has an internal resistance of 7 Ohms so the
higher the current, the higher the temperature of the battery itself.
And, as you all know, for every 10 degrees Centigrade, the chemical
reactivity rate coefficient doubles.

Two things:

The internal resistance is 7 milliohms.

The primary aging mechanism for these batteries is corrosion of the
positive electrode grid. For this particular mechanism, the reaction
doubles every 8 °C, not 10° C as one would expect.

So, the rate constant will be
higher for the charge cycle on a hot battery. They say you can
completely recharge this baby in 2 hours if you use 10 Amps. I'm
thinking that it heats up...that's why!

Yep, and that's not unique to this particular battery.

Actually, Odyssey says the battery can be recharged in as little as 20
minutes, assuming you have a charger that's beefy enough (3.5C= 56 A).
At this rate, the internal temperature will rise about 20 °C and will
peak about the time charging current starts decreasing (assumes the
recommended voltage-limited constant-current charging).

For a 2-hour charge, the expected temperature rise will be only about
10 °C.

By the way, my information came from http://www.hepi.com/papers.htm.
I pretty sure the Odyssey battery is an evolution of the Cyclon and
Genesis batteries that are mentioned in the papers.

Lastly...

I did a lot of research on batteries and settled on the Odyssey when a
replacement was needed for Long-EZ N271J. I put a PC-925 (27 A-h) in
her back in February. So far, so good.


Rob-
------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Cherney e-mail: rcherney(at)comcast(dot)net

I've been running an Odyssey PC 625 battery cranking my 0320 Lycoming for
several years. Cranke the think at 20 degrees in Canada. The only problem
was that I had to add some lead wts in the battery box to keep the c.g.
where it was.
Stu Fields
"Rob Cherney" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:32:20 GMT, (Badwater
Bill) wrote:

Another goofy thing about the Odyssey is that you can't recharge it
using a trickle charger. Less than 1.25 Amps won't put all the energy
back into the battery. You have to use a 10 Amp charger to get back
to full energy.

From their data, it looks like the charge efficiency sharply decreases
below 0.1C (1C = rated A-h @ 10h discharge rate). This is 1.6A for
your battery. Note that this only applies to a fully discharged
battery.

Anybody know the chemistry behind that? I don't get
it. Lead peroxide is lead peroxide. When you drive the sulfate off
the lead atom and reattach an oxygen, what the hell difference does it
make how fast you do it (high Amps)?

Hawker doesn't say specifically, but reading between the lines it
looks like it could be a function of the small amount of tin that's
added to the lead in the plates. This is done to increase service
life for deep-discharge applications. Don't ask me about tin
chemistry, though. I'm an electronics weenie.

The only thing I can think of is
that the battery itself has an internal resistance of 7 Ohms so the
higher the current, the higher the temperature of the battery itself.
And, as you all know, for every 10 degrees Centigrade, the chemical
reactivity rate coefficient doubles.

Two things:

The internal resistance is 7 milliohms.

The primary aging mechanism for these batteries is corrosion of the
positive electrode grid. For this particular mechanism, the reaction
doubles every 8 °C, not 10° C as one would expect.

So, the rate constant will be
higher for the charge cycle on a hot battery. They say you can
completely recharge this baby in 2 hours if you use 10 Amps. I'm
thinking that it heats up...that's why!

Yep, and that's not unique to this particular battery.

Actually, Odyssey says the battery can be recharged in as little as 20
minutes, assuming you have a charger that's beefy enough (3.5C= 56 A).
At this rate, the internal temperature will rise about 20 °C and will
peak about the time charging current starts decreasing (assumes the
recommended voltage-limited constant-current charging).

For a 2-hour charge, the expected temperature rise will be only about
10 °C.

By the way, my information came from http://www.hepi.com/papers.htm.
I pretty sure the Odyssey battery is an evolution of the Cyclon and
Genesis batteries that are mentioned in the papers.

Lastly...

I did a lot of research on batteries and settled on the Odyssey when a
replacement was needed for Long-EZ N271J. I put a PC-925 (27 A-h) in
her back in February. So far, so good.


Rob-
------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Cherney e-mail: rcherney(at)comcast(dot)net

On 31 Aug 2003 00:16:41 -0700, wrote:

Badwater may be a physicist but he's not too bright.

I just received 2 Panasonic 20 AH RG batteries from Digikey. They
were about $42 each. They are about 2.99 wide, 7.13" long, and 6.58" high,
weigh 14.34 lbs each. Same chemistry and internal physical construction as the
Odyssey.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What a meanie you are. 8-D

I was made aware of these Panasonics
some time ago through the RV list.....
but, who am I to bust anyone's bubble? g


Barnyard BOb -- bargain hunter

Rob Cherney wrote:

I did a lot of research on batteries and settled on the Odyssey when a
replacement was needed for Long-EZ N271J. I put a PC-925 (27 A-h) in
her back in February. So far, so good.

I use a sealed lead-acid lawn tractor battery from the local
automobile parts store in my Long EZ -- about $25 as I recall. I swap
it out every 2 to 3 years. It cranks in 20 degree F temps and I've
never had one fail. I prefer this to buying an expensive battery and
hoping it will last 4+ years. Too heavy? Not for me. In fact I have
two 8 lb lead shot bags straddling the thing.

David O -- http://www.AirplaneZone.com

Barnyard BOb -- wrote:

On 31 Aug 2003 00:16:41 -0700, wrote:


Badwater may be a physicist but he's not too bright.

I just received 2 Panasonic 20 AH RG batteries from Digikey. They
were about $42 each. They are about 2.99 wide, 7.13" long, and 6.58" high,
weigh 14.34 lbs each. Same chemistry and internal physical construction as the
Odyssey.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What a meanie you are. 8-D

I was made aware of these Panasonics
some time ago through the RV list.....
but, who am I to bust anyone's bubble? g


Barnyard BOb -- bargain hunter

I was aware of that battery also Bob but the other guy posting here does
not have a clue what he is talking about. They ARE NOT the same battery.
The Odyssey is a dry cell battery and the Panasonic is a lead acid
battery. For the purpose that BWB is using his the Panasonic would never
stand up to the charge/discharge he is doing. I did a lot of research
before buying the Odyssey battery. I Also looked at the LC-X1220 from
Digikey. Not bursting any bubbles here maybe if would do some more
research his bubble may burst. The guys using the Panasonic in their RVs
are finding that the cranking power gets weaker rapidly while the
Odyssey keeps right on ticken. I have the spec sheets for both batteries.
Jerry