MontJet update

(Tony Goetz wrote)
The Aviation Week SourceBook has a nice big run down of gas turbine
engines and manufacturers (along with everything else aerospace). I
managed to download the 2005 turbine section several months ago, but I
can't find the link anymore (I think it was direct from AviationNow.com).
In any case, I saved it and have uploaded it if you want to browse. There
are quite a few engines in the range you're looking at, mostly intended
for drones.

http://www.togo84.com/spec05_gas_turbines.pdf
Very cool. Thanks.

Rainy day kind of link to root around in.

Rolls-Royce (Indianapolis, IN, USA)
Model # AE 1107C

MAX. POWER AT SEA LEVEL (LB.-THRUST/SHP.)
6,150 shp (Shaft horsepower)

SPECIFIC FUEL CONSUMPTIONAT MAX. POWER LB./LBF.-HR. or LB./HP.-HR.
0.41

Dry weight ....973 lbs

Bell Boeing V-22.


Montblack

Montblack wrote:

With a ceiling of 45,000 ft ...no [ride ABOVE the] soup for you! g


Team MonJet
Hey, wait...am I not a founding member and supporter of the MontBlack
fan club? One (well, ok, maybe two...er...um...plus a few more) itty
bitty comments and I'm booted off the plane (before the plane is even
*on* the drawing board. Who died and left you CEO? :-)

Besides...flying in the soup, so long as it's not turbulent, no embedded
T-storms, no ice, is fun...in that twisted instrument flying sort of way.

Ok, ok, so I beg forgiveness and start out as your web master.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

("Jack Allison" wrote)
Who died and left you CEO? :-)


Speaking of, I wonder if BRS makes Golden Parachutes?

http://www.brsparachutes.com/default.aspx
Located in South St Paul, MN ...at the airport.


"Team" MontJet

Tony Goetz wrote:

Montblack wrote...
Anyone out there with a PROVEN jet engine, with a fuel burn under
(Spectrum's per engine average)27 gph, that puts out 800-1,200
pound-thrust,
and weighs under 200 lbs?

15-20 gph* would be nice.


Short answer? In the whole list, only the first three
(drone engines) which maxed out at 320 pounds thrust.

Two of those might fly that .82 ME-262.
With rather scale performance, I might add


Lot's'o SHAFT engines that might be interesting...
But there's that whole propeller thing again.

Nice list, (Tony?)

The Aviation Week SourceBook has a nice big run down of gas turbine engines
and manufacturers (along with everything else aerospace). I managed to
download the 2005 turbine section several months ago, but I can't find the
link anymore (I think it was direct from AviationNow.com). In any case, I
saved it and have uploaded it if you want to browse. There are quite a few
engines in the range you're looking at, mostly intended for drones.

http://www.togo84.com/spec05_gas_turbines.pdf

So... when does construction begin?

-Tony Goetz

Montblack wrote:

(Tony Goetz wrote)
The Aviation Week SourceBook has a nice big run down of gas turbine
engines and manufacturers (along with everything else aerospace). I
managed to download the 2005 turbine section several months ago, but I
can't find the link anymore (I think it was direct from AviationNow.com).
In any case, I saved it and have uploaded it if you want to browse. There
are quite a few engines in the range you're looking at, mostly intended
for drones.

http://www.togo84.com/spec05_gas_turbines.pdf
Very cool. Thanks.

Rainy day kind of link to root around in.

Rolls-Royce (Indianapolis, IN, USA)
Model # AE 1107C

MAX. POWER AT SEA LEVEL (LB.-THRUST/SHP.)
6,150 shp (Shaft horsepower)

SPECIFIC FUEL CONSUMPTIONAT MAX. POWER LB./LBF.-HR. or LB./HP.-HR.
0.41

Dry weight ....973 lbs

Bell Boeing V-22.



There are some MONSTER engines in there!


Montblack

In article ,
Montblack wrote:
("Jack Allison" wrote)
Who died and left you CEO? :-)


Speaking of, I wonder if BRS makes Golden Parachutes?

Rumor-mill says this can be accomplished by taking the eqipment to several
churches, and having the head priest at each sanctify it.

If I were to do that, I'd go to St. Peter's, St. Paul's, and St. Mary's.

That way, it's assured to work. When needed, I'll have the (thrice blessed)
Sounds of Silence. groan

Robert Bonomi wrote:
In article ,
Montblack wrote:
("Jack Allison" wrote)
Who died and left you CEO? :-)

Speaking of, I wonder if BRS makes Golden Parachutes?

Rumor-mill says this can be accomplished by taking the eqipment to several
churches, and having the head priest at each sanctify it.

If I were to do that, I'd go to St. Peter's, St. Paul's, and St. Mary's.

That way, it's assured to work. When needed, I'll have the (thrice blessed)
Sounds of Silence. groan


It would would certainly blow in the wind. ;o)

Tony

("Richard Lamb" wrote)
There are some MONSTER engines in there!


Agreed.
http://www.togo84.com/spec05_gas_turbines.pdf

http://www.spectrum.aero/downloads/competitive_analysis.pdf
If the Spectrum 33 will burn half the fuel (starting at 500 miles) vs. the
Cessna Citation CJ1, and fly (slightly) higher, and fly (slightly) faster
....mostly because of weight.

Then the MontJet, [now] weighing 1/6th the Spectrum 33's Empty Wt., and
1/5th the Spectrum 33's MTOW, and having 1/2 the number of engines, should
be able to keep up with the Spectrum 33 while burning less than 1/2 the fuel
of the Spectrum 33.

1/2 the fuel burn is in the neighborhood of 25-29 gph - for flights over one
hour.

So, I'm looking at, hopefully, a number in the low 20 gph range for a 2-4 hr
MontJet flight. Am I not? This flight would be side by side with the
Spectrum 33. (45,000 ft and 415 kts).

If I increase the Empty Weight of the MontJet to 600 lbs, I'm still only
1/6th the Empty Wt. of the Spectrum 33, and still hovering around (1/5th)
20% of the S-33's MTOW.

Not to mention (so I mention it) my significantly smaller profile skimming
through the air. Not sure on the phraseology there.

MontJet: (415 kts/FL450)
(Range: 1,500+ miles)
Empty Weight ............600 lbs (x6 = S-33)
Fuel (4 hrs)..................600 lbs @ 21.5 gph (7 lbs/gal)
Pilot + stuff .................260 lbs
MTOW .....................1,460 lbs (x5 = S33)

Spectrum 33: (415 kts/FL450)
(Range: 2,000 miles)
Empty Wt. ...............3,620 lbs
MTOW .....................7,300 lbs

BTW, I'm using the same engine as the Spectrum 33:
Engine ................................290 lbs
Williams FJ33-4A [1,568 pound-thrust]

Unless a smaller (less fuel burn) FJ22 becomes available! g

http://www.williams-int.com/high/pro...FJ33Planes.htm
Planes using the FJ33 Engine


Team MontJet
Goals:
1. Get that MTOW under 1,200 lbs.
2. Get that fuel burn under 20 gph for flights over 1.5 hours. FJ22???
3. Partner with Spectrum so they'll let me use their cool new plane-making
system.
4. Don't get dead and don't go dead broke.

Montblack wrote:

("Richard Lamb" wrote)
There are some MONSTER engines in there!

Agreed.
http://www.togo84.com/spec05_gas_turbines.pdf

http://www.spectrum.aero/downloads/competitive_analysis.pdf
If the Spectrum 33 will burn half the fuel (starting at 500 miles) vs. the
Cessna Citation CJ1, and fly (slightly) higher, and fly (slightly) faster
...mostly because of weight.

Then the MontJet, [now] weighing 1/6th the Spectrum 33's Empty Wt., and
1/5th the Spectrum 33's MTOW, and having 1/2 the number of engines, should
be able to keep up with the Spectrum 33 while burning less than 1/2 the fuel
of the Spectrum 33.

1/2 the fuel burn is in the neighborhood of 25-29 gph - for flights over one
hour.

So, I'm looking at, hopefully, a number in the low 20 gph range for a 2-4 hr
MontJet flight. Am I not? This flight would be side by side with the
Spectrum 33. (45,000 ft and 415 kts).

If I increase the Empty Weight of the MontJet to 600 lbs, I'm still only
1/6th the Empty Wt. of the Spectrum 33, and still hovering around (1/5th)
20% of the S-33's MTOW.

Not to mention (so I mention it) my significantly smaller profile skimming
through the air. Not sure on the phraseology there.

MontJet: (415 kts/FL450)
(Range: 1,500+ miles)
Empty Weight ............600 lbs (x6 = S-33)
Fuel (4 hrs)..................600 lbs @ 21.5 gph (7 lbs/gal)
Pilot + stuff .................260 lbs
MTOW .....................1,460 lbs (x5 = S33)

Spectrum 33: (415 kts/FL450)
(Range: 2,000 miles)
Empty Wt. ...............3,620 lbs
MTOW .....................7,300 lbs

BTW, I'm using the same engine as the Spectrum 33:
Engine ................................290 lbs
Williams FJ33-4A [1,568 pound-thrust]

Unless a smaller (less fuel burn) FJ22 becomes available! g

http://www.williams-int.com/high/pro...FJ33Planes.htm
Planes using the FJ33 Engine

Team MontJet
Goals:
1. Get that MTOW under 1,200 lbs.
2. Get that fuel burn under 20 gph for flights over 1.5 hours. FJ22???
3. Partner with Spectrum so they'll let me use their cool new plane-making
system.
4. Don't get dead and don't go dead broke.

First, break numba 4 into two pieces...
4. Don't get dead
5. Don't go dead broke.

That's so we know which one got us in the end.




1000 pounds thrust!


Ok, your empty weight estimate, like everybody elses, is way to low.

At 300 pounds dry weight the FJ33 is certainly the smallest offering
from Williams international. Like they say, "For a new class of jet".

But that only leaves 300 pounds for airframe, cockpit, landing gear,
etc.

And this is not going to be a BD-5 sized plane - not with that engine.
Not with two hours of fuel aboard!

If we are talking about a "Sport Jet" (1200 lbs MTOW) we still need to
find a smaller engine. Something about half that size, or so?

Smaller *Lighter* engine, with a lower fuel burn.

And it's going to need a pretty cool wing to make speed restrictions.

Something like a miniature U2?

Well, at least there are no climb rate restrictions, nor did I notice
any altitude limits (BG)