LIppmann reports a 950 meter winch launch with their Dynatec winch line - anything higher?

Lippmann in Germany reports a winch launch to 950 meters (3100').
http://www.lippmann.de/hoistline.htm

Has anyone heard of a higher launch?

Bill Daniels

The video does not show the speed and wind conditions... but it seems to
be a long launch time (1-1/2 minutes)

I would love to know all the conditions.

In a good headwind with a 5000 ft of wire, we have launched our K8's
routinely above 2000' and I faintly remember one launch being sited as
near 3000'.

Larry Bogan
Bluenose Soaring Club
Nova Scotia

Bill Daniels wrote:
Lippmann in Germany reports a winch launch to 950 meters (3100').
http://www.lippmann.de/hoistline.htm

Has anyone heard of a higher launch?

Bill Daniels

My information, obtained indirectly through two languages, is that it was
near zero wind. The initial rope length was 2Km so they achieved slightly
less than 50% of that which sounds reasonable to me. 90 seconds on the wire
is a loooong winch launch.

Bill Daniels

"Larry Bogan" wrote in message
...
The video does not show the speed and wind conditions... but it seems to
be a long launch time (1-1/2 minutes)

I would love to know all the conditions.

In a good headwind with a 5000 ft of wire, we have launched our K8's
routinely above 2000' and I faintly remember one launch being sited as
near 3000'.

Larry Bogan
Bluenose Soaring Club
Nova Scotia

Bill Daniels wrote:
Lippmann in Germany reports a winch launch to 950 meters (3100').
http://www.lippmann.de/hoistline.htm

Has anyone heard of a higher launch?

Bill Daniels

I'd like to find out more about this record -- they claim to be acheiving
about 50% line length release altitude in almost a dead calm 1 m/s (2.5 Kt).

Our 5000 ft (1500 m) Spectra line weighs only 66 lb (30 kg) and we release
at about 1700 ft. (520 m), not all that much better than the steel line we
used to use -- this "Hoistline" must have something going for it besides
light weight!

Bob Johnson


Dynatec Hoistline is the new winds start rope out of plastic.

It is in many areas superior to the conventional wire. Not only in the
point Betriebssicherheit, that
separate increase lets itself also in the start height according to rope
length until 30%.

On this side, you find the current News to the Dynatec
oistline. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
..

Start with a 2,000 m Hoistline!

Result: would relax 950 ms!

Here a video of the start!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
..

Current News:

An interview with the 1st chairperson of the AEC Landau, Mr. Thilo Ott. The
society has used the Hoistline already for almost 3 years
successfully: interview pdf

Hoistline long start with a 2,000 m!

More than 3,000 starts with the first Dynatec Hoitsline in Landau!

New! Now also F-train lines of Hoistline!

German heights record with Dynatec Hoistline!

The AEC Landau reached 8 incredible 900 ms in the winds start with a Ka!
Further records should follow!

Dynatec Hoistline collaborates perfectly with the new electro start winds:

The first tests of the new Dynatec Hoistline on the also new electro winds
of the firm Ulbrich- industry electronics especially positively passed.
They show, functions that just these new winds especially well with the
Dynatec Hoistline. It gives more information
under www.startwinde.de and on the Aero in hall 1 state 109.

Further successful initial use:

A m Saturday (15.03.2003) around 10.40 clock we made the first start in
Rostock Purkshof at the plastic rope. The conditions were not optimal, easy
back wind (1m/s) and only 1250 ms rope length. As an airplane, we had
occupied a Bocian doppelsitzig (full mass). Train height nevertheless 510
ms!! Further 13 starts were made and all with about the same results. We
had a Sollbruchstellen tear (incorrectly stuck) and a Seilrißimitation; both
without
problems. The Seilhändling, is reported has like your it; extremely easily.
The skeptics here in the society are upset for Saturday also. Now it
arrives only on the durability. René Rietz

The well known Eggerwinde successfully with the Dynatec Hoistline tested:

The well known wind manufacturer Egger tested its current wind already that
with new winds start rope Dynatec Hoistline. The attempts passed
according to manufacturer very positively. Also the manufacturer developed
first a special cap device for the Hoistline. This is also individually
available. Further information under www.eggerwinde.de. D o w n l o a d s:

Reconstruction instructions for the winds of the AEC-Landau. Teil 1 ,
Teil 2

Test report plastic start rope (ca. 2MB) in that "magazine sail fly",
author Tino



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"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news:Y2qwd.770486$8_6.538044@attbi_s04...
Lippmann in Germany reports a winch launch to 950 meters (3100').
http://www.lippmann.de/hoistline.htm

Has anyone heard of a higher launch?

Bill Daniels

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:49:58 -0600, "Bob Johnson"
wrote:

I'd like to find out more about this record -- they claim to be acheiving
about 50% line length release altitude in almost a dead calm 1 m/s (2.5 Kt).

Well... I've seen all these launches... and there was always lot of
headwind, usually at least 20 kts.


Our 5000 ft (1500 m) Spectra line weighs only 66 lb (30 kg) and we release
at about 1700 ft. (520 m), not all that much better than the steel line we
used to use -- this "Hoistline" must have something going for it besides
light weight!

I guess Lippman quotes some false numbers. Having used a steel rope
and a the plastic rope on the same winch fpr one year, the plastic
rope did not have a significant advantage concerning achievable height
(between 100 ft for an ASK-21 and at maximum 300 ft for a Ka-8).

In my opnion the advantage es the handling, not in the launch heights.





Bye
Andreas

"Andreas Maurer" wrote in message
...


I guess Lippman quotes some false numbers. Having used a steel rope
and a the plastic rope on the same winch fpr one year, the plastic
rope did not have a significant advantage concerning achievable height
(between 100 ft for an ASK-21 and at maximum 300 ft for a Ka-8).

In my opnion the advantage es the handling, not in the launch heights.

You know, Andreas, I guess it's possible that they lied and then faked a
video of the launch but I think it's more likely that they really did what
they said since a lot of independent people are watching carefully. It
could be that Lippmann gets high launches because they really know their
stuff.

Bill Daniels

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:29:41 GMT, "Bill Daniels"
wrote:

You know, Andreas, I guess it's possible that they lied and then faked a
video of the launch but I think it's more likely that they really did what
they said since a lot of independent people are watching carefully. It
could be that Lippmann gets high launches because they really know their
stuff.

No need to fake anything, Bill...

I've seen at least a dozen of 3.000ft+ launches of them, but with
6.500 ft of rope it's pretty easy to get high if the wind is strong
enough.
Of course with such long ropes the light weight of the plastic starts
to play a role - the longer the rope, the more advantageous gets a
light rope.

With the standard rope length of about 4.000 ft the height advantage
compared to our steel cable (on a slightly stronger winch) is
impossible to judge visually.


Bye
Andreas

Andreas Maurer wrote:

With the standard rope length of about 4.000 ft the height advantage
compared to our steel cable (on a slightly stronger winch) is
impossible to judge visually.

We have a 3300ft rope and we get about 50m (170ft) more with an ASK 21.

Stefan

If you are interested there is an igc-file from one of those high launches
available at http://www.aec-landau.de/ (click Projekte - Höhenrekord mit
PE-Seil ).



At my club we are also experimenting with the Hoistline, but only have a
little over 900m (3000 ft). The typical release height for gliders like LS8
and Discus is 900-1200 ft using 5mm steel wire, and slightly higher (100 ft
or so) for the Hoistline. Taking the huge difference in weight into account,
I think that the benefit of using hoistline will increase considerably with
the length of the line.



Hoistline is in most respects easier to handle than steel wire, so if it was
not for the price we would not consider using steel any more.



-Henning




"Bob Johnson" wrote in message
news:cXqwd.119$ql2.74@okepread04...
I'd like to find out more about this record -- they claim to be acheiving
about 50% line length release altitude in almost a dead calm 1 m/s (2.5
Kt).

Our 5000 ft (1500 m) Spectra line weighs only 66 lb (30 kg) and we release
at about 1700 ft. (520 m), not all that much better than the steel line we
used to use -- this "Hoistline" must have something going for it besides
light weight!

Bob Johnson


Dynatec Hoistline is the new winds start rope out of plastic.

It is in many areas superior to the conventional wire. Not only in the
point Betriebssicherheit, that
separate increase lets itself also in the start height according to rope
length until 30%.

On this side, you find the current News to the Dynatec
istline. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.

Start with a 2,000 m Hoistline!

Result: would relax 950 ms!

Here a video of the start!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.

Current News:

An interview with the 1st chairperson of the AEC Landau, Mr. Thilo Ott.
The society has used the Hoistline already for almost 3 years
successfully: interview pdf

Hoistline long start with a 2,000 m!

More than 3,000 starts with the first Dynatec Hoitsline in Landau!

New! Now also F-train lines of Hoistline!

German heights record with Dynatec Hoistline!

The AEC Landau reached 8 incredible 900 ms in the winds start with a Ka!
Further records should follow!

Dynatec Hoistline collaborates perfectly with the new electro start winds:

The first tests of the new Dynatec Hoistline on the also new electro winds
of the firm Ulbrich- industry electronics especially positively passed.
They show, functions that just these new winds especially well with the
Dynatec Hoistline. It gives more information
under www.startwinde.de and on the Aero in hall 1 state 109.

Further successful initial use:

A m Saturday (15.03.2003) around 10.40 clock we made the first start in
Rostock Purkshof at the plastic rope. The conditions were not optimal,
easy back wind (1m/s) and only 1250 ms rope length. As an airplane, we
had occupied a Bocian doppelsitzig (full mass). Train height nevertheless
510 ms!! Further 13 starts were made and all with about the same results.
We had a Sollbruchstellen tear (incorrectly stuck) and a Seilrißimitation;
both without
problems. The Seilhändling, is reported has like your it; extremely
easily. The skeptics here in the society are upset for Saturday also. Now
it arrives only on the durability. René Rietz

The well known Eggerwinde successfully with the Dynatec Hoistline tested:

The well known wind manufacturer Egger tested its current wind already
that with new winds start rope Dynatec Hoistline. The attempts passed
according to manufacturer very positively. Also the manufacturer
developed first a special cap device for the Hoistline. This is also
individually
available. Further information under www.eggerwinde.de. D o w n l o a d
s:

Reconstruction instructions for the winds of the AEC-Landau. Teil 1 ,
Teil 2

Test report plastic start rope (ca. 2MB) in that "magazine sail fly",
author Tino



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"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news:Y2qwd.770486$8_6.538044@attbi_s04...
Lippmann in Germany reports a winch launch to 950 meters (3100').
http://www.lippmann.de/hoistline.htm

Has anyone heard of a higher launch?

Bill Daniels

OK, the new record is 2 minute launch to 1100 meters (3609 feet) AGL with an
average ROC of 17.8 knots. No wind to speak of. It sounds like pilot Elke
Daniel was flying a K8. The starting rope length was 2000 meters (6562
feet). They used a new Egger winch.

As soon as Aero-Club Landau gets some wind down the runway, I bet we hear of
1500 meter launches. I really wish I had a video of this.

Bill Daniels

"Henning K. Nielsen" wrote in message
k...
If you are interested there is an igc-file from one of those high launches
available at http://www.aec-landau.de/ (click Projekte - Höhenrekord mit
PE-Seil ).



At my club we are also experimenting with the Hoistline, but only have a
little over 900m (3000 ft). The typical release height for gliders like
LS8
and Discus is 900-1200 ft using 5mm steel wire, and slightly higher (100
ft
or so) for the Hoistline. Taking the huge difference in weight into
account,
I think that the benefit of using hoistline will increase considerably
with
the length of the line.



Hoistline is in most respects easier to handle than steel wire, so if it
was
not for the price we would not consider using steel any more.



-Henning




"Bob Johnson" wrote in message
news:cXqwd.119$ql2.74@okepread04...
I'd like to find out more about this record -- they claim to be
acheiving
about 50% line length release altitude in almost a dead calm 1 m/s (2.5
Kt).

Our 5000 ft (1500 m) Spectra line weighs only 66 lb (30 kg) and we
release
at about 1700 ft. (520 m), not all that much better than the steel line
we
used to use -- this "Hoistline" must have something going for it besides
light weight!

Bob Johnson


Dynatec Hoistline is the new winds start rope out of plastic.

It is in many areas superior to the conventional wire. Not only in the
point Betriebssicherheit, that
separate increase lets itself also in the start height according to rope
length until 30%.

On this side, you find the current News to the Dynatec

stline. -------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
.

Start with a 2,000 m Hoistline!

Result: would relax 950 ms!

Here a video of the start!




--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
.

Current News:

An interview with the 1st chairperson of the AEC Landau, Mr. Thilo Ott.
The society has used the Hoistline already for almost 3 years
successfully: interview pdf

Hoistline long start with a 2,000 m!

More than 3,000 starts with the first Dynatec Hoitsline in Landau!

New! Now also F-train lines of Hoistline!

German heights record with Dynatec Hoistline!

The AEC Landau reached 8 incredible 900 ms in the winds start with a Ka!
Further records should follow!

Dynatec Hoistline collaborates perfectly with the new electro start
winds:

The first tests of the new Dynatec Hoistline on the also new electro
winds
of the firm Ulbrich- industry electronics especially positively passed.
They show, functions that just these new winds especially well with the
Dynatec Hoistline. It gives more information
under www.startwinde.de and on the Aero in hall 1 state 109.

Further successful initial use:

A m Saturday (15.03.2003) around 10.40 clock we made the first start in
Rostock Purkshof at the plastic rope. The conditions were not optimal,
easy back wind (1m/s) and only 1250 ms rope length. As an airplane, we
had occupied a Bocian doppelsitzig (full mass). Train height
nevertheless
510 ms!! Further 13 starts were made and all with about the same
results.
We had a Sollbruchstellen tear (incorrectly stuck) and a
Seilrißimitation;
both without
problems. The Seilhändling, is reported has like your it; extremely
easily. The skeptics here in the society are upset for Saturday also.
Now
it arrives only on the durability. René Rietz

The well known Eggerwinde successfully with the Dynatec Hoistline
tested:

The well known wind manufacturer Egger tested its current wind already
that with new winds start rope Dynatec Hoistline. The attempts passed
according to manufacturer very positively. Also the manufacturer
developed first a special cap device for the Hoistline. This is also
individually
available. Further information under www.eggerwinde.de. D o w n l o a
d
s:

Reconstruction instructions for the winds of the AEC-Landau. Teil 1
,
Teil 2

Test report plastic start rope (ca. 2MB) in that "magazine sail fly",
author Tino



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"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news:Y2qwd.770486$8_6.538044@attbi_s04...
Lippmann in Germany reports a winch launch to 950 meters (3100').
http://www.lippmann.de/hoistline.htm

Has anyone heard of a higher launch?

Bill Daniels