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Cirrus SR22 Purchase advice needed.



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 25th 04, 05:29 PM
Thomas Borchert
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C,

The FAA nearly grounded Cirrus with
the first rash of accidents.


Any source to prove that statement? I doubt it is true.


The pilot in Florida had 600 hours in type, was instrument rated, and was a
founder of the Cirrus Pilots Association. That does not fit the description
of "more money than skill."


So?


The Cirrus cannot recover from a spin or even an incipient spin.


Oh? So you did the certification flights that the company didn't do? Or how
do you know that?

Sorry, but while the Cirrus might well prove to be less safe than other
planes, I just can't stand this cheap propaganda. The Cirrus CAN recover from
a spin - it's a certification requirement! It is fulfilled by pulling the
chute. No other methods of recovery were officially tested. The FAA was
satisfied.


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #22  
Old April 25th 04, 05:29 PM
Thomas Borchert
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C,

The fact is that the Cirrus currently owns one of the worst accident and
fatality rates of any small airplane.


That still doesn't make them "fall out of the sky". And it's not even
true, depending on how you look at it.


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #23  
Old April 25th 04, 06:18 PM
Stu Gotts
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On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:29:40 +0200, Thomas Borchert
wrote:

Stu,

If you have that many hours in a Bonanza, you'll never be satisfied
with anything else.


Well, the Cirrus has the chance to do that, from my perspective.


Ever a Bonanza owner?

  #24  
Old April 25th 04, 06:30 PM
Dude
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Cirrus could improve their situation vastly by adding speed breaks.

This could reduce the stalls, at least on approach. It would also reduce
the severe shock cooling they are seeing due to their engine control system.

I believe I have seen Cirrus claim the plane can be revovered from a spin
normally, but experience to date has so far shown that may not be that easy.



"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Doug Vetter" wrote in message
et...

The SR20's limit of 12000 hours is still too limiting, IMHO, but I can
appreciate the FAA's conservatism regarding any new (indeed
revolutionary) design.


I was told by a Diamond rep that the Diamond aircraft do not have airframe
life limits. I would consider them to be just as revolutionary as the
Cirrus. However, I have not looked up the Diamond's type certificates to
verify the rep's claims.


However, I must disagree with the comment about the airplanes "falling
out of the sky" -- we just touched on this in Jay's thread. This has
NOTHING to do with the airplane. It has EVERYTHING to do with pilots
with more money than skill flying them.


Actually, it has EVERYTHING (sic) to do with the airplane, whether it is
some design flaw that causes them to disintegrate or whether it is a

design
flaw that makes them too difficult to fly for the pilots that are buying
them.

In any event, I think the FAA will eventually order Cirrus to get to the
bottom of it, no matter what the cause. The FAA nearly grounded Cirrus

with
the first rash of accidents. I doubt that their patience with Cirrus is
unlimited.

The pilot in Florida had 600 hours in type, was instrument rated, and was

a
founder of the Cirrus Pilots Association. That does not fit the

description
of "more money than skill."

The Cirrus cannot recover from a spin or even an incipient spin. Pilots

are
supposed to deploy the chute if the Cirrus enters a spin. Fine, if you are
900' AGL or more. Probably more, if the chute takes longer to deploy when
the airplane is in a spin. So a departure stall or approach stall in this
airplane is going to be far more dangerous than in other aircraft.

And let us be clear he stalls were a factor in a large percentage of

the
Cirrus accidents so far.

Given that the most common GA accident is low level maneuvering: the slick
design of the Cirrus, the inadequate flaps, the poor stall handling
abilities, pilot unfamiliarity with the new equipment (which also keeps
pilots' eyes inside the cockpit), poor maintenance and quality control,

and
the inability of the parachute to deploy at low altitude all seem to me to
add up to a lot of trouble.




  #25  
Old April 25th 04, 06:48 PM
Dude
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How do you look at it?



"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
C,

The fact is that the Cirrus currently owns one of the worst accident and
fatality rates of any small airplane.


That still doesn't make them "fall out of the sky". And it's not even
true, depending on how you look at it.


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)



  #26  
Old April 25th 04, 07:12 PM
Fred Wolf
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While there have been some accidents due to equipment malfunction, I think
most have been ones where severe lapses in Judgement have occured

F Wolf
"Dennis" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking of purchasing a Cirrus SR22, I seen it at Sun'n Fun (although

I
have seen it before) and now I can not stop thinking about it.

I certainly can not afford to purchase one outright, but have a few people
at my local FBO that would be interested in partnering..

I would like to get others ideas in regards to if I should do a lease-back
at my local FBO, or take on 4 to 9 other partners.. I will be going to

the
Rochester fly in next month (http://www.rochesterwings.com) and hope to
solidify a deal with Cirrus..

Dennis
N3868J
MyAirplane.com




  #27  
Old April 25th 04, 07:33 PM
Dave Stadt
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"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
C,

The fact is that the Cirrus currently owns one of the worst accident and
fatality rates of any small airplane.


That still doesn't make them "fall out of the sky". And it's not even
true, depending on how you look at it.


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)



I think "fall out of the sky" is a rather apt description. After all, if
one pulls the chute they do "fall out of the sky."



  #28  
Old April 25th 04, 07:49 PM
Newps
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"Dude" wrote in message
...
Cirrus could improve their situation vastly by adding speed breaks.

This could reduce the stalls, at least on approach. It would also reduce
the severe shock cooling they are seeing due to their engine control

system.


How would speed brakes help? Speed brakes do not reduce the speed at which
a wing stalls.


  #29  
Old April 25th 04, 08:15 PM
Thomas Borchert
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Stu,

Ever a Bonanza owner?


No, keeps me neutral g.

I have about 100 hours in Bo's. And a half hour in an SR20. All it took
to convince me. The SR20 flies better - to me.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #30  
Old April 25th 04, 08:15 PM
Thomas Borchert
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Dude,

This could reduce the stalls, at least on approach.


Oh? So how many have stalled on approach again? Right, none.

It would also reduce
the severe shock cooling they are seeing due to their engine control system.


So you can prove damage through shock cooling? Wow! I know no one else who
can. And where is the connection to the "engine control system"?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

 




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