If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
wrote in message ... So, it is possible for someone to log PIC flight time who has a pilot certificate with ratings valid for the aircraft (e.g. PPSEL), but no BFR or current medical if they were the sole manipulator of the controls? If that is the case, then this person could go fly with a current pilot rated for the aircraft, and they both log PIC... one as sole manipulator and one as the legal "acting as PIC". In this case, yes, because the acting PIC is a required crew member. The same is true of a safety pilot who is acting as PIC. Hrm... that sounds fishy, because it means whenever two pilots fly together, they can both log all the time as PIC... whomever isn't physically flying can be legally acting as PIC at the same time. However, the acting PIC must be required by the aircraft or operation to be a crew member in order for him to log PIC while not manipulating the controls. A buddy just along for the ride may not log PIC, though the FAA and everybody else may consider him to be acting PIC. There is one case of an ATP who was considered to be PIC even though he was sleeping in the back seat of a light twin. A CFI and private pilot were actually sitting up front. The airplane had an accident while the ATP was asleep, and the FAA considered him to be PIC even though the ATP and both the other pilots insisted he was not. He could not log the time, however, because he was not an essential crew member. A flight instructor logs all the time he is giving instruction as PIC, though there may be any number of reasons (currency, medical, etc.) that he cannot act as PIC. Say you have a plane carrying ten passengers plus crew. Up front you have a pilot, an instructor who is giving the pilot instruction, and an examiner who is reviewing the instructor. In the back you have a rated pilot who is performing the duties of the required flight attendant but is also acting as PIC. All of the pilots in this case may log PIC, but only the guy in back is acting as PIC. George and Mike, both rated pilots, fly up to Newtown in a Cessna 172 for the college game. George flies the airplane and Mike acts as PIC. Only George can log PIC even though Mike is acting as PIC. Bill, a rated pilot but not a flight instructor, takes his friend Jill for a ride in his Warrior. Jill holds no certificate and has never even been in a plane before, but Bill lets her fly the airplane for awhile. Bill continues to act as PIC. It is fairly evident that Jill can neither act as PIC nor log the time as PIC. But does Bill log PIC during the time Jill is handling the controls? You could argue it both ways: Bill is a required crew member and should log the time; or you could say that he is not really required and is unable to log the time. I tend to go with the former view because Bill could also just set the autopilot and still log the time as PIC even though *nobody*, strictly speaking, is handling the controls and Bill and Jill are in the back of the airplane having a picnic. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
|
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Funny, I have the same goal of going to the checkride with 10 hours of
actual. But unfortunately it's scheduled for Tuesday June 1st, I only have 8 hours, and the days I'm flying between now and the checkride don't appear to offer much hope. I'm not flying today and the ceilings are 1600 feet, oh well. Good luck on your ride. Dave "Geo. Anderson" wrote in message ... I'll be taking my checkride in a few weeks and one of my goals has been to have at least 10 hours of actual IMC before I take the ride. It's going well; I'm at 9.1 and only 2 of those were just boring a hole in clouds on a cross country. I have been under the impression that I could log PIC time when under the hood but not in actual IMC, because I am not rated. Last night, however, I read something in the ASA oral test prep book that seemed to imply that this was not the case. So, assembled wizards, should I be logging PIC time in IMC? or not? tia, Geo. Anderson |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
C J Campbell wrote:
: wrote in message : ... : : So, it is possible for someone to log PIC flight time who has a pilot : certificate with ratings valid for the aircraft (e.g. PPSEL), but no BFR : or current : medical if they were the sole manipulator of the controls? If that is the : case, then : this person could go fly with a current pilot rated for the aircraft, and : they both : log PIC... one as sole manipulator and one as the legal "acting as PIC". : In this case, yes, because the acting PIC is a required crew member. The : same is true of a safety pilot who is acting as PIC. I've looked through the FARs some and.... *zzzzzzzzz*.... Oh, sorry... I haven't found where it stipulates what constitutes a "required crew member," except in the obvious case of an aircraft that requires it. Also, for a safety-pilot for a rated pilot under the hood, things are rather clear (PIC vs. SIC is mainly a matter of agreement as to who is acting as PIC). In the non-current case above, however, it's not clear to me that the current/rated pilot is "required." Of course it makes sense that he would be required, because the aircraft cannot be legally flown (i.e. *acting* as PIC) by the noncurrent pilot. : Bill, a rated pilot but not a flight instructor, takes his friend Jill for a : ride in his Warrior. Jill holds no certificate and has never even been in a : plane before, but Bill lets her fly the airplane for awhile. Bill continues : to act as PIC. It is fairly evident that Jill can neither act as PIC nor log : the time as PIC. But does Bill log PIC during the time Jill is handling the : controls? You could argue it both ways: Bill is a required crew member and : should log the time; or you could say that he is not really required and is : unable to log the time. I tend to go with the former view because Bill could : also just set the autopilot and still log the time as PIC even though : *nobody*, strictly speaking, is handling the controls and Bill and Jill are : in the back of the airplane having a picnic. Basically the same as above, except the question of Jill logging the time is moot, since she is not rated in the category/class/[type]. Don't the regs only allow manipulation of the controls by a rated person (strictly speaking) unless a CFI is PIC? ....head...hurting...now.... -Cory -- ************************************************** *********************** * The prime directive of Linux: * * - learn what you don't know, * * - teach what you do. * * (Just my 20 USm$) * ************************************************** *********************** |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
|
#16
|
|||
|
|||
|
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Whew! And I thought this would be one of those short, one or two
replies, threads. Thanks, guys. I'm going back to revise some logging. Geo. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
wrote in message ... Basically the same as above, except the question of Jill logging the time is moot, since she is not rated in the category/class/[type]. Don't the regs only allow manipulation of the controls by a rated person (strictly speaking) unless a CFI is PIC? No. The regulations allow anyone to manipulate the controls for a part 91 flight. |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
C J Campbell wrote:
: wrote in message : ... : : Basically the same as above, except the question of Jill logging the time : is : moot, since she is not rated in the category/class/[type]. Don't the regs : only allow : manipulation of the controls by a rated person (strictly speaking) unless : a CFI is : PIC? : : No. The regulations allow anyone to manipulate the controls for a part 91 : flight. Just curious where. Also, if a pilot takes a non-pilot flying, according to FAR 61.51(e)(iii): (iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted. the pilot cannot log PIC time for the duration he/she is not physically manipulating the controls? That's the way it would appear. Boy, if that's the case there are an awful lot of planes flying around with unloggable PICs -Cory -- ************************************************** *********************** * The prime directive of Linux: * * - learn what you don't know, * * - teach what you do. * * (Just my 20 USm$) * ************************************************** *********************** |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
wrote in message ... C J Campbell wrote: : wrote in message : ... : : Basically the same as above, except the question of Jill logging the time : is : moot, since she is not rated in the category/class/[type]. Don't the regs : only allow : manipulation of the controls by a rated person (strictly speaking) unless : a CFI is : PIC? : : No. The regulations allow anyone to manipulate the controls for a part 91 : flight. Just curious where. Also, if a pilot takes a non-pilot flying, according to FAR 61.51(e)(iii): (iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted. the pilot cannot log PIC time for the duration he/she is not physically manipulating the controls? That's the way it would appear. That was brought up earlier in the thread. You could argue it either way. What do you log while the plane is on autopilot? |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
AOPA Stall/Spin Study -- Stowell's Review (8,000 words) | Rich Stowell | Aerobatics | 28 | January 2nd 09 02:26 PM |
IFR student | Gerald Sylvester | Instrument Flight Rules | 22 | December 14th 03 01:47 PM |
Student Built RV6A Officially Launched | Aubrey Adams | Home Built | 10 | October 22nd 03 01:05 AM |
Instrument Fix Question (student) | Cecil E. Chapman | Instrument Flight Rules | 6 | August 11th 03 07:15 PM |
Logging PIC time as student instrument pilot in IMC | Greg Esres | Instrument Flight Rules | 24 | August 2nd 03 05:20 PM |