Rocks Thrown at Border Patrol Chopper

Montblack wrote:
Illegal labor is a much bigger problem than people realize. If the
government says the number is 5 million, then the number is 25 million!!

Mexicans are EVERYWHERE. MOST are illegal. The US immigration system has
imploded on its bureaucratic self.

This country has built up an infrastructure over 150 years. Millions of
Mexicans have invaded the US to get a piece of that infrastructure.
Booty isn't always hauled away by an invading army.

Exactly. It amazes me that people people can justify the concept if illegal
labor because it is [supposedly] keeping the cost of goods down. In the end
this is a bad thing... not only is this just not really true but like wage
and price controls it results in problems down the road. If you honestly
add up all of the costs (to every single working citizen) of providing all
the social services to this sea of illegal, like health care and educating
their children you would be shocked. This cost is not honestly being considered
as tacked on to just living in the united states.

We must also consider the long term effects to a society that literally
encourages the dilution of its existing culture. Immigrants years ago
generally worked harder at "becoming" Americans... learning the language
and becoming part of the American dream. This is much less so these days.

Personally I believe it is because these illegals are not required to
make any investment in America... they just show up, make money and get
free stuff. Being a citizen should be more like being a stockholder in
a corporation. If you are not willing to purchase any shares... well.. no vote.

"Montblack" wrote:

Mexicans are EVERYWHERE. MOST are illegal. The US immigration system
has imploded on its bureaucratic self.

This is allowed because business wants cheap immigrant labor and
business owns the politicians of both parties. Do not expect anything
meaningful to be done about it. (BTW, ironically, Mexico has its own
problems with illegal Central American immigrants).

This country has built up an infrastructure over 150 years. Millions
of Mexicans have invaded the US to get a piece of that infrastructure.
Booty isn't always hauled away by an invading army.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. I happen to believe we
(American taxpayers) are getting value for our money because the cheap
labor keeps prices down for food, construction, domestic maintenance,
food service, hospitality, etc. Nevertheless, out-of-control illegal
immigration is a bad thing, IMO, because of the overloads it places on
the infrastructure you mention and the impact it has on American society
and culture in general.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

kontiki ) wrote:
:
: Exactly... and most Americans are too cheap to pay what it would REALLY
: cost to buy food, a home or most other things (except automobiles) if real
: actual citizens did the work and got paid a fair wage for the work.
:

U.S. school teachers are now targets of the Cheap Labor Lobby:

http://www.vdare.com/guzzardi/050826_vfl.htm
VDARE.com: 08/26/05 - View From Lodi, CA:
Look Out Teachers; The H-1B Visa Gang Wants Your Job

``...Rob Sanchez, who tracks non-immigrant visa issues and is the
Webmaster for the invaluable www.zazona.com, says school districts
fail to look at unemployed local professionals. Many laid off software
engineers, for example, have gone back to school to get education degrees.

Wrote Sanchez in his August 3rd newsletter:

"School districts all over the United States are actively recruiting
foreign teachers for our schools. In this case, Filipino math and
science teachers on H-1B visas have just arrived in Nevada.

I have talked to many engineers and programmers that have been unable
to get teaching jobs in math and science, despite the fact that they
went back to school to get education degrees. Despite the growing
number of desperate unemployed high-tech workers states like Nevada
still claim there is a shortage of these types of teachers. This is
just another cruel insult to the growing number of highly educated
professionals that can't find meaningful work."

[snip]

If you wonder why the attraction to H-1Bs is so strong, read
the 2004 National Education Association report Trends in Foreign Teacher
Recruitment.

From the NEA report:

"...Some foreign teachers receive lower pay than comparable teachers
in their schools."

And:

"...Some school districts pay their nonimmigrant employees as new
teachers, regardless of their experience and qualifications."...''



--Jerry Leslie
Note: is invalid for email

If you honestly
add up all of the costs (to every single working citizen) of providing all
the social services to this sea of illegal, like health care and educating
their children you would be shocked. This cost is not honestly being considered
as tacked on to just living in the united states.

This is true of social services to citizens too.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:

This is true of social services to citizens too.

We are in total agreement. Take away all the freebies and watch
supposedly non-productive people start taking more responsibility
for their own lives. Likewise, see a reduction in illegals efforts
to come here for freebies.

When you get something for nothing you seldome appreciate its value.
This is a lesson governemnt never learns.

"leslie" wrote in message
.. .
kontiki ) wrote:
:
: Exactly... and most Americans are too cheap to pay what it would REALLY
: cost to buy food, a home or most other things (except automobiles) if
real
: actual citizens did the work and got paid a fair wage for the work.
:

U.S. school teachers are now targets of the Cheap Labor Lobby:

I know here in California we need to get rid of the pensions the teachers
fireman and such are getting. They should save like the rest of us, or even
have a simple 401k. People are living to long they retire @52 collect 75% of
thier pay for 30 years or more. There is no way we can keep asking the
normal taxpayer to keep paying more taxes.

http://www.vdare.com/guzzardi/050826_vfl.htm
VDARE.com: 08/26/05 - View From Lodi, CA:
Look Out Teachers; The H-1B Visa Gang Wants Your Job

``...Rob Sanchez, who tracks non-immigrant visa issues and is the
Webmaster for the invaluable www.zazona.com, says school districts
fail to look at unemployed local professionals. Many laid off software
engineers, for example, have gone back to school to get education
degrees.

Wrote Sanchez in his August 3rd newsletter:

"School districts all over the United States are actively recruiting
foreign teachers for our schools. In this case, Filipino math and
science teachers on H-1B visas have just arrived in Nevada.

I have talked to many engineers and programmers that have been unable
to get teaching jobs in math and science, despite the fact that they
went back to school to get education degrees. Despite the growing
number of desperate unemployed high-tech workers states like Nevada
still claim there is a shortage of these types of teachers. This is
just another cruel insult to the growing number of highly educated
professionals that can't find meaningful work."

[snip]

If you wonder why the attraction to H-1Bs is so strong, read
the 2004 National Education Association report Trends in Foreign Teacher
Recruitment.

From the NEA report:

"...Some foreign teachers receive lower pay than comparable teachers
in their schools."

And:

"...Some school districts pay their nonimmigrant employees as new
teachers, regardless of their experience and qualifications."...''



--Jerry Leslie
Note: is invalid for email

This is true of social services to citizens too.

We are in total agreement. Take away all the freebies and watch
supposedly non-productive people start...

We're not in total agreement. We both agree that social services are an
unaccounted cost in many analyses, and it can be very deceptive when
they are omitted.

However, they also have unaccounted benefits, which accrue not only to
direct recipients, but also indirectly to others. Social services are
not bad in and of themselves. SOME social services are overall harmful,
SOME social services could be overall beneficial but are administrated
in a harmful manner, and SOME social services are in fact overall
harmful no matter how they are handled. We will probably agree on which
are which to some extent too, but it's not a slam dunk either way.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

..and most Americans are too cheap to pay what it would REALLY cost
to buy food, a home or most other things...

I think the warning of a large consumer price spike after the elimination of
illegal immigration is a bit overblown.

First, it's an attempt to discourage tougher illegal immigration laws.
Second, a market economy would adapt - probably very quickly. Immigrants
would still be available, it's just they would be required to have proper
documentation such as a guest worker permit. And any cost increases to
employers would promote increased efficiency in their operations. Also the
"crowding out" effect caused by immigrant workers would be reduced, bringing
other (unemployed?) Americans into these jobs.

Frankie

Some large liberal municipalities have laws against local law
enforcement
providing information about illegal aliens to the Feds.

What? Where?

IIRC Denver and some other large western cities.

If true, that's insane.

Any kind of a source available for that info? Any laws on the books that
we can view?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Frankie wrote:
I think the warning of a large consumer price spike after the elimination of
illegal immigration is a bit overblown.

First, it's an attempt to discourage tougher illegal immigration laws.
Second, a market economy would adapt - probably very quickly. Immigrants
would still be available, it's just they would be required to have proper
documentation such as a guest worker permit. And any cost increases to
employers would promote increased efficiency in their operations. Also the
"crowding out" effect caused by immigrant workers would be reduced, bringing
other (unemployed?) Americans into these jobs.

Exactly. Well stated Sir.