Short Wings Gliders

when the chinese start building them
they will sell like candies!!!

No......let's make them in the U.S.

Get this economy going again, even tho it would represent a drop in
the bucket.

I subscribe to a few Composites trade magazines and it is amazing the
progress that is being made in the U.S. composites industry. This
country is a leader in composites technology.

Once you realize you're not going to get rich building gliders, but in
doing so you provide a product that can be purchased by economically
similar folks, it's a good thing.

Brad

At 15:15 28 January 2009, Dan Silent wrote:

production runs of over 1000? ...over 500?
none in the past!

Schweizer built 700 1-26s. Took 'em a while,
though.

Jim Beckman

Chris Rollings wrote:
How many gliders with a wingspan of 13.5 metres or less have enjoyed a
production run of over 1000? ...over 500? Ask yourself why?

That's a hard question to answer, but there are several factors.

An important one is the used market. A new glider must compete with used
ones. If the number of pilots is not increasing, the price of used,
higher performance gliders will be close enough to reduce the market for
the new but lower performance glider. If the sport were growing well,
there would be plenty of room for the new, lower span, cheaper glider in
the market.

Another factor is the competition classes. Once instituted, they
encourage (even force) the manufacturers to build to that standard,
which has been a wing span limit for many decades. I am pleased to see
the Apis and Silent deviate from these "class conscious" wing spans, but
competition classes still drive a large portion of the market.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

On Jan 27, 10:09*pm, RRK wrote:
There is a proposal of creating 13.5 class on IGC agenda on their *next
meeting in Laussane.

http://www.fai.org/gliding/system/fi...8_3_1_Proposal...

Haven't we got a big enough mess with too many FAI classes ?
All with little performance difference (other than the failed world-
class experiment).
Tooling and engineering for a new glider costs millions.
This must be paid for, by us, over a small production run for each
glider.
More classes = even more fragmentation = smaller production runs =
higher costs.

Aaaarrrgggg....

On Jan 28, 6:01*pm, DRN wrote:
On Jan 27, 10:09*pm, RRK wrote:

There is a proposal of creating 13.5 class on IGC agenda on their *next
meeting in Laussane.

http://www.fai.org/gliding/system/fi...8_3_1_Proposal...

Haven't we got a big enough mess with too many FAI classes ?
All with little performance difference (other than the failed world-
class experiment).
Tooling and engineering for a new glider costs millions.
This must be paid for, by us, over a small production run for each
glider.
More classes = even more fragmentation = smaller production runs =
higher costs.

Aaaarrrgggg....

Dave,

It's still winter........................

Brad

At 02:01 29 January 2009, DRN wrote:
On Jan 27, 10:09=A0pm, RRK wrote:
There is a proposal of creating 13.5 class on IGC
meeting in Lausanne.


http://www.fai.org/gliding/system/fi...8_3_1_Proposal...

Haven't we got a big enough mess with too many FAI classes ?

yes, you are right!!!
think about the PIK without spoilers, so designed to win,
and it did..... but what a mistake to have such a solid
and durable sailplane with flaps and no spoilers because of a new class or
a new regulation!

All with little performance difference (other than the failed
world-class experiment).

yes, you are right!!!
the world-class is a failure, only 200 pewe built, nobody likes it and she
scares people away!!!

Tooling and engineering for a new glider costs millions.
This must be paid for, by us, over a small production run
for each glider.
More classes even more fragmentation smaller production
runs higher costs.

yes, you are right!!!
BUT YOU MISS THE POINT!
the Short Wings Gliders are already here............
20 different models, maybe more,
old, new, light, heavy, sleek, ugly, fabric, carbon, etc.
no need to built a new one,
world-class simply will change name and all pewe will
fly with all other Short Wings.
It is as simple as this.
TINS4WS, so Short Wings Gliders will flock together and have fun. Of
course they will keep complaining about handicaps, rules and other sh*t,
but nobody will ever ask you to built another glider.
(Antares to date has more bankruptcies then models.)
But maybe the Chinese will come up with something.
..........another white 25 cm today...............

Dan Silent wrote:
At 02:01 29 January 2009, DRN wrote:
On Jan 27, 10:09=A0pm, RRK wrote:
There is a proposal of creating 13.5 class on IGC
meeting in Lausanne.


http://www.fai.org/gliding/system/fi...8_3_1_Proposal...

Haven't we got a big enough mess with too many FAI classes ?

yes, you are right!!!
think about the PIK without spoilers, so designed to win,
and it did..... but what a mistake to have such a solid
and durable sailplane with flaps and no spoilers because of a new class or
a new regulation!

All with little performance difference (other than the failed
world-class experiment).

yes, you are right!!!
the world-class is a failure, only 200 pewe built, nobody likes it and she
scares people away!!!

Tooling and engineering for a new glider costs millions.
This must be paid for, by us, over a small production run
for each glider.
More classes even more fragmentation smaller production
runs higher costs.

yes, you are right!!!
BUT YOU MISS THE POINT!
the Short Wings Gliders are already here............
20 different models, maybe more,
old, new, light, heavy, sleek, ugly, fabric, carbon, etc.
no need to built a new one,
world-class simply will change name and all pewe will
fly with all other Short Wings.
It is as simple as this.
TINS4WS, so Short Wings Gliders will flock together and have fun. Of
course they will keep complaining about handicaps, rules and other sh*t,
but nobody will ever ask you to built another glider.
(Antares to date has more bankruptcies then models.)
But maybe the Chinese will come up with something.
.........another white 25 cm today...............


I would be surprised if they ever get enough gliders together to have a
contest. If you are into racing, you will buy something with at least
15 meters of span.

On Jan 28, 8:52*pm, Greg Arnold wrote:
Dan Silent wrote:
At 02:01 29 January 2009, DRN wrote:
On Jan 27, 10:09=A0pm, RRK *wrote:
There is a proposal of creating 13.5 class on IGC
meeting in Lausanne.

http://www.fai.org/gliding/system/fi...8_3_1_Proposal...

Haven't we got a big enough mess with too many FAI classes ?

yes, you are right!!!
think about the PIK without spoilers, so designed to win,
and it did..... but what a mistake to have such a solid
and durable sailplane with flaps and no spoilers because of a new class or
a new regulation!

All with little performance difference (other than the failed
world-class experiment).

yes, you are right!!!
the world-class is a failure, only 200 pewe built, nobody likes it and she
scares people away!!!

Tooling and engineering for a new glider costs millions.
This must be paid for, by us, over a small production run
for each glider.
More classes even more fragmentation smaller production
runs higher costs.

yes, you are right!!!
BUT YOU MISS THE POINT!
the Short Wings Gliders are already here............
20 different models, maybe more,
old, new, light, heavy, sleek, ugly, fabric, carbon, etc.
no need to built a new one,
world-class simply will change name and all pewe will
fly with all other Short Wings.
It is as simple as this.
TINS4WS, so Short Wings Gliders will flock together and have fun. Of
course they will keep complaining about handicaps, rules and other sh*t,
but nobody will ever ask you to built another glider.
(Antares to date has more bankruptcies then models.)
But maybe the Chinese will come up with something.
.........another white 25 cm today...............

I would be surprised if they ever get enough gliders together to have a
contest. *If you are into racing, you will buy something with at least
15 meters of span.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would posit that the racing guys are a very small percentage of the
total population of sailplane pilots. But, they have an overwhelming
impact on the sport in terms of being catered to by the manufacturers.

Brad

Brad wrote:
On Jan 28, 8:52 pm, Greg Arnold wrote:
Dan Silent wrote:
At 02:01 29 January 2009, DRN wrote:
On Jan 27, 10:09=A0pm, RRK wrote:
There is a proposal of creating 13.5 class on IGC
meeting in Lausanne.
http://www.fai.org/gliding/system/fi...8_3_1_Proposal...
Haven't we got a big enough mess with too many FAI classes ?
yes, you are right!!!
think about the PIK without spoilers, so designed to win,
and it did..... but what a mistake to have such a solid
and durable sailplane with flaps and no spoilers because of a new class or
a new regulation!
All with little performance difference (other than the failed
world-class experiment).
yes, you are right!!!
the world-class is a failure, only 200 pewe built, nobody likes it and she
scares people away!!!
Tooling and engineering for a new glider costs millions.
This must be paid for, by us, over a small production run
for each glider.
More classes even more fragmentation smaller production
runs higher costs.
yes, you are right!!!
BUT YOU MISS THE POINT!
the Short Wings Gliders are already here............
20 different models, maybe more,
old, new, light, heavy, sleek, ugly, fabric, carbon, etc.
no need to built a new one,
world-class simply will change name and all pewe will
fly with all other Short Wings.
It is as simple as this.
TINS4WS, so Short Wings Gliders will flock together and have fun. Of
course they will keep complaining about handicaps, rules and other sh*t,
but nobody will ever ask you to built another glider.
(Antares to date has more bankruptcies then models.)
But maybe the Chinese will come up with something.
.........another white 25 cm today...............
I would be surprised if they ever get enough gliders together to have a
contest. If you are into racing, you will buy something with at least
15 meters of span.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would posit that the racing guys are a very small percentage of the
total population of sailplane pilots. But, they have an overwhelming
impact on the sport in terms of being catered to by the manufacturers.

Brad

The point I was trying to make was that they are talking about creating
a 13.5 meter racing class that won't have anyone racing in it.

At 04:52 29 January 2009, Greg Arnold wrote:

I would be surprised if they ever get enough gliders together to have a
contest. If you are into racing, you will buy something with at least
15 meters of span.

http://www.126association.org/graphics/tsa_grid.jpg

Jim Beckman