Canada overflight question

Hey all,
Anyone in the Great Lakes area familiar with the procedures for overflying
Canadian airspace? Specifically from the Detroit area to Niagara Falls, NY.
Is there a fee if you don't land in Canada? Do you still have to file a
DVFR flight plan? I can't believe you'd have to go through customs once in
NY, right?
I'd prefer to land in St. Catherines, ON , but I thought I read somewhere
that on entering Canada you have to land at first INTL airport, and I'm
assuming on return to the US I'd have to go through Niagara Falls anyway,
pay some landing/parking fee's and then play with customs, so not worth it
probably.
Flying direct saves me a few gallons, about 20mins, and avoids the whole
Cleveland Class B and curving around the south side of Lake Erie.
Any opinions?
Thanks, Chris

On 2004-01-28 20:45:04 -0800, "SeeAndAvoid"
said:

Hey all,
Anyone in the Great Lakes area familiar with the procedures for
overflying
Canadian airspace? Specifically from the Detroit area to Niagara Falls,
NY.
Is there a fee if you don't land in Canada? Do you still have to file a
DVFR flight plan? I can't believe you'd have to go through customs once
in
NY, right?

You only need to go through customs if you land in a foreign country.

If you use Canadian air traffic services, it seems to me you'll be charged.
I know we pay for overflight, and I can't imagine that they can tell the
difference between private and commercial flights.

--
Larry Fransson
Seattle, WA

In a previous article, "SeeAndAvoid" said:
Anyone in the Great Lakes area familiar with the procedures for overflying
Canadian airspace? Specifically from the Detroit area to Niagara Falls, NY.
Is there a fee if you don't land in Canada?

Yes. If you use NavCanada services (and you must) the owner of your plane
will be billed $15 for 4 months service. If you come back any time within
that 4 months, you won't be billed.

Do you still have to file a
DVFR flight plan?

You've never had to file DVFR - that's only for penetrating the ADIZ off
the coast. You need to be on a regular VFR flight plan, and you must be
talking to somebody (getting flight following) as you cross the border.

I can't believe you'd have to go through customs once in
NY, right?

No, you don't have to go through customs if you didn't land in Canada.

I'd prefer to land in St. Catherines, ON , but I thought I read somewhere
that on entering Canada you have to land at first INTL airport, and I'm

No, you land at any Airport of Entry. On a flight from Rochester to
London Ontario, I passed over any number of international airports (St
Catherines, Hamilton, etc) and didn't land at any of them. Same on the
way back - didn't land at Buffalo even though I flew right over it,
cleared customs at Rochester.

assuming on return to the US I'd have to go through Niagara Falls anyway,
pay some landing/parking fee's and then play with customs, so not worth it
probably.

If you land in Canada and come back, you'll need a US customs sticker on
your plane. If you don't have one ahead of time, you'll need to be
carrying $50 US on your person to buy one - they don't take checks, credit
cards or Canadian money.

You can read a bit more at
http://www.rochesterflyingclub.com/f...o_canada.shtml

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Boromir, with three arrows in your chest, you ARE the Weakest Link, g'bye!"

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 04:45:04 GMT, "SeeAndAvoid"
wrote:

Hey all,
Anyone in the Great Lakes area familiar with the procedures for overflying
Canadian airspace? Specifically from the Detroit area to Niagara Falls, NY.
Is there a fee if you don't land in Canada? Do you still have to file a
DVFR flight plan? I can't believe you'd have to go through customs once in
NY, right?
I'd prefer to land in St. Catherines, ON , but I thought I read somewhere
that on entering Canada you have to land at first INTL airport, and I'm
assuming on return to the US I'd have to go through Niagara Falls anyway,
pay some landing/parking fee's and then play with customs, so not worth it
probably.
Flying direct saves me a few gallons, about 20mins, and avoids the whole
Cleveland Class B and curving around the south side of Lake Erie.
Any opinions?
Thanks, Chris

Nov 03, I flew from Chicago to Niagara. Route was around Lake
Michigan then just north of Detroit along the North side of Erie to
Niagara.

You have to be on a flightplan and talking to ATC in order to cross
the border into Canada. I filed an IFR flightplan and picked up my
clearance as I was just North of Detroit (but still on the US side).
Stayed on instruments for the remainder of the trip to Niagara. As
far as landing locations - my understanding is that as long as the
takeoff and landing airports are in the US, the overflight does not
require a customs stop. This means the takeoff and destination airport
can be anywhere in the US.

Make note that there is a restricted area over Niagara Falls.

Because of a slight wind advantage, I flew home along the South edge
of Erie and past the Buffalo and Cleveland lakeshores. Both were
accomodating with airspace transitions.

I spoke to a Canadian ATC facility, (I think Toronto Center) for the
bulk of my Canada overflight. I haven't received a bill yet, and that
was 3 months ago. So you may or may not get charged.

One thing to note: The ground based US border can have long waits.
When I went, my hotel was on the Canada side of the falls. Arriving
at about 9pm on Friday night there was no wait. However, returning at
2pm on a Sunday afternoon was brutal. A two hour wait. Next time, I
will investigate landing on the Canadian side. I believe Niagara
District Airport is a customs entry point. It is also a very nice
Drive along the river North towards the airport - very scenic.

-Nathan

In article , Paul Tomblin
wrote:

If you land in Canada and come back, you'll need a US customs sticker on
your plane. If you don't have one ahead of time, you'll need to be
carrying $50 US on your person to buy one - they don't take checks, credit
cards or Canadian money.

When did the fee increase from $25 to $50?

In a previous article, EDR said:
In article , Paul Tomblin
wrote:

If you land in Canada and come back, you'll need a US customs sticker on
your plane. If you don't have one ahead of time, you'll need to be
carrying $50 US on your person to buy one - they don't take checks, credit
cards or Canadian money.

When did the fee increase from $25 to $50?

Oh you're right. I was thinking back to when I needed to buy a sticker
*and* pay a $25 overtime call-out fee, but we don't have to do that any
more.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Meeting, n.:
An assembly of people coming together to decide what person or
department not represented in the room must solve a problem.

EDR wrote:

In article , Paul Tomblin
wrote:

If you land in Canada and come back, you'll need a US customs sticker on
your plane. If you don't have one ahead of time, you'll need to be
carrying $50 US on your person to buy one - they don't take checks,
credit cards or Canadian money.

I've only done it once in Great Falls Montana, but they guy didn't take
cash, only credit card.

I was annoyed since I went everywhere looking for $USD20 to pay the fee
before I left, then didn't even need it.

-Andrew

--
Andrew Stanley-Jones | "It's kind of fun to do the impossible."
EE, LongEz N87KJ | -- Walt Disney

I just did this on Sunday, in Rochester, and the customs agent offered to
take a credit card, but said he would have to mail the sticker. I paid cash,
but the credit option was available.

Brad
"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
In a previous article, "SeeAndAvoid" said:
Anyone in the Great Lakes area familiar with the procedures for
overflying
Canadian airspace? Specifically from the Detroit area to Niagara Falls,
NY.
Is there a fee if you don't land in Canada?

Yes. If you use NavCanada services (and you must) the owner of your plane
will be billed $15 for 4 months service. If you come back any time within
that 4 months, you won't be billed.

Do you still have to file a
DVFR flight plan?

You've never had to file DVFR - that's only for penetrating the ADIZ off
the coast. You need to be on a regular VFR flight plan, and you must be
talking to somebody (getting flight following) as you cross the border.

I can't believe you'd have to go through customs once in
NY, right?

No, you don't have to go through customs if you didn't land in Canada.

I'd prefer to land in St. Catherines, ON , but I thought I read somewhere
that on entering Canada you have to land at first INTL airport, and I'm

No, you land at any Airport of Entry. On a flight from Rochester to
London Ontario, I passed over any number of international airports (St
Catherines, Hamilton, etc) and didn't land at any of them. Same on the
way back - didn't land at Buffalo even though I flew right over it,
cleared customs at Rochester.

assuming on return to the US I'd have to go through Niagara Falls anyway,
pay some landing/parking fee's and then play with customs, so not worth
it
probably.

If you land in Canada and come back, you'll need a US customs sticker on
your plane. If you don't have one ahead of time, you'll need to be
carrying $50 US on your person to buy one - they don't take checks, credit
cards or Canadian money.

You can read a bit more at
http://www.rochesterflyingclub.com/f...o_canada.shtml

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Boromir, with three arrows in your chest, you ARE the Weakest Link,
g'bye!"

Paul Tomblin wrote:
Yes. If you use NavCanada services (and you must) the owner of your plane
will be billed $15 for 4 months service. If you come back any time within
that 4 months, you won't be billed.

Just out of curiosity, what happens if you don't pay? Will the US
really extradite you to .ca over a $15 ATC tab?

--Dave

--
Dave Buckles

http://www.flight-instruction.com

In a previous article, Dave Buckles said:
Paul Tomblin wrote:
Yes. If you use NavCanada services (and you must) the owner of your plane
will be billed $15 for 4 months service. If you come back any time within
that 4 months, you won't be billed.

Just out of curiosity, what happens if you don't pay? Will the US
really extradite you to .ca over a $15 ATC tab?

Next time you try and fly through Canada, you get vectored through
Washington DC, P-40, Kennebunkport ME, Crawford TX and then Area 51.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World
War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
-- Albert Einstein