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#11
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Tie Down Straps - Help Needed
On Sep 19, 6:05*pm, wrote:
On Sep 19, 5:38*pm, sisu1a wrote: On Sep 19, 2:47*pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote: I one of them was Paul Hansen's Sisu 1A in California the other was a Schweizer in Texas - Houston I think. *Anyway there are dozens more stories of stakes pulling out leading to the distruction of gliders in the history of gliding. I don't think it's a matter of mechanical engineering, it's soil engineering. *Stakes will hold in turf or damp soil held together by strong roots. *The dry sand and gravel of western deserts just won't hold a stake no matter how cleverly it's designed. *Even half axle shafts driven in with a sledge hammer have pulled out. *The act of driving in the stake loosens the soil enough to prevent the stake(s) from holding making the whole I agree with Bill. *I did a test with the claw attached to my trailer jack and the wheel on a scale. *The claw pulled out of compacted decomposed granite in my driveway at about 250 lbs, came completetly out at 300, but this was aided by weed stop fabric under the DG. *The soil was damp to a great depth due the the Socal rains in January this year, but not soggy. *I doubt that dry, uncompacted sand would do better. I have the claw in my Cirrus as an emegency tie down only, I think it is a good product for that application. For permanent tie downs nothing like a tire buried with a chain around it. *One the sand is watered down, it is not goining anywhere. Mike Malis. Ditto. I think the claw is a good option as an landout or similar situation. I've tried a few screw in types and you just cant get them into either the hard compacted dirt or rocky soils in many locations. The best place for the glider to be is inside it's box or a hangar. Otherwise get a real tie down installed, the claw and screw-ins are all completely inappropriate for permanent tie downs. It is not that hard to dig a hole, sink some anchors and fill with concrete. Darryl |
#12
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Tie Down Straps - Help Needed
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:47:09 -0600, "Bill Daniels"
bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote: [snip] BTW, trenching tools have dug some pretty deep holes. I've been sold by Marines that it's truly amazing how quick and deep you can dig when being shot at. And the dirt flying in the air tends to distract the enemy's aim...;-) rj |
#13
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Tie Down Straps - Help Needed
"Paul Remde" wrote in message news:5sUAk.350834$yE1.314870@attbi_s21... Hi Bill, That is a very strong accusation against the CLAW. Can you please give more information about the circumstances of the 2 failures? There was a Husky aircraft lost last year while tied out using the Claw. The Claw's casting failed, IIRC. However, there was some question as to whether a nearby aircraft's tie down failed first, hitting the Husky. Both aircraft totaled. bumper zz Minden |
#14
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Tie Down Straps - Help Needed
I have to admit I have been pretty dubious about how effective the
Claw is as a tie down. I did purchase a set this year and am still pretty suspect of them. Soil type and condition greatly affect how effective they are. This summer we drove one into some hard packed gravel. The next day we pulled it out by hand. Probably less that 50lbs straight up. The 12" stakes simply aren't enough in many conditions. I have fabricated some 24" stakes for them and feel much more comfortable with the longer stakes. My stakes are mild steel which isn't the best as the do bend in rocky soil but it takes a lot more effort to remove them. I will probably look into finding a hardened steel for future stakes. Brian HP16T |
#15
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Tie Down Straps - Help Needed
If you do a Google search on mobile home anchors, you'll find a lot of
reasonably priced options like this: http://www.randgsupply.com/Warehouse...anchorkits.htm There are also rods for anchoring in rocks etc. It's only when it's advertised for aircraft that it gets expensive . . . bumper zz Minden "Brian" wrote in message ... I have to admit I have been pretty dubious about how effective the Claw is as a tie down. I did purchase a set this year and am still pretty suspect of them. Soil type and condition greatly affect how effective they are. This summer we drove one into some hard packed gravel. The next day we pulled it out by hand. Probably less that 50lbs straight up. The 12" stakes simply aren't enough in many conditions. I have fabricated some 24" stakes for them and feel much more comfortable with the longer stakes. My stakes are mild steel which isn't the best as the do bend in rocky soil but it takes a lot more effort to remove them. I will probably look into finding a hardened steel for future stakes. Brian HP16T |
#16
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Tie Down Straps - Help Needed
A very cheap solution that I use is to buy 2 18" long 2x2 steel angle
iron. Cut 45 degree edges at one end to make a point (the metal supplier that you buy the angle from can do this). Drill a 0.5" at the other end. Drive the angles into the ground at a 45 degree angle with a sledge hammer at a place where the tie down rope will be at right angles to the stake. Total cost: $15-20, not including the sledge. You need as much surface area as possible for maximum hold strength. Consequently I don't favor any kind of tie-down that looks like a tent stake or an over-sized nail. It is important that the tie-down rope be at right angles, or as close to it as possible, to maximize this surface area. I also got a couple of cheap, small plastic buckets to put over the tie-down so I wouldn't stub my toes or drop a wing on them. If you want a permanent high-strength tie-down get 2 or 3 used tires, some cable or chain, and a shovel. Attach the chain to each tire and bury the tire as deep as you can. The tires are free, the chain about $1 a foot, and you probably already have a shovel. Tom Seim |
#17
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Tie Down Straps - Help Needed
On Sep 19, 8:31*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Sep 19, 6:05*pm, wrote: On Sep 19, 5:38*pm, sisu1a wrote: On Sep 19, 2:47*pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote: I one of them was Paul Hansen's Sisu 1A in California the other was a Schweizer in Texas - Houston I think. *Anyway there are dozens more stories of stakes pulling out leading to the distruction of gliders in the history of gliding. I don't think it's a matter of mechanical engineering, it's soil engineering. *Stakes will hold in turf or damp soil held together by strong roots. *The dry sand and gravel of western deserts just won't hold a stake no matter how cleverly it's designed. *Even half axle shafts driven in with a sledge hammer have pulled out. *The act of driving in the stake loosens the soil enough to prevent the stake(s) from holding making the whole I agree with Bill. *I did a test with the claw attached to my trailer jack and the wheel on a scale. *The claw pulled out of compacted decomposed granite in my driveway at about 250 lbs, came completetly out at 300, but this was aided by weed stop fabric under the DG. *The soil was damp to a great depth due the the Socal rains in January this year, but not soggy. *I doubt that dry, uncompacted sand would do better. I have the claw in my Cirrus as an emegency tie down only, I think it is a good product for that application. For permanent tie downs nothing like a tire buried with a chain around it. *One the sand is watered down, it is not goining anywhere. Mike Malis. Ditto. I think the claw is a good option as an landout or similar situation. I've tried a few screw in types and you just cant get them into either the hard compacted dirt or rocky soils in many locations. The best place for the glider to be is inside it's box or a hangar. Otherwise get a real tie down installed, the claw and screw-ins are all completely inappropriate for permanent tie downs. It is not that hard to dig a hole, sink some anchors and fill with concrete. Same here. I keep a claw in each aircraft I fly (powered and glider) because it's the best thing I've found out there. The kit is a bit heavy, but that's fine by me because it' not cheap and will do the job for a few days of tie-down. Jeremy |
#18
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Tie Down Straps - Help Needed
Hi Tom,
Thanks for the link, but I can't seem to find a simple strap with a metal cam lock buckle on that page. I don't want any hooks or ratchets. Maybe I'm not looking in the right part of the site. Paul Remde "5Z" wrote in message ... On Sep 19, 12:57 pm, brianDG303 wrote: I decided to use flyties (http://www.flyties.com/). I've been using a similar product for over 20 years. Got it from Australia. The stakes are nylon and have held up amazingly well, sometimes twisting a bit to get into rocky soil, but so far, never broke one. I would guess I've used it 10 - 15 times, mostly for overnight tiedown in benign conditions, but a few times I've had to secure the glider in gusty conditions while waiting for my crew. As for straps, I clicked on an ad for "CAM Buckle Straps": http://www.kingroyusa.com/cargo-cont...FQq4sgodLxW8ew that showed up in my Google sidebar. Pretty nice bulk pricing at less than $10 per strap & buckle. -Tom |
#20
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Tie Down Straps - Help Needed
On Sep 23, 4:16*am, user wrote:
Tryhttp://www.screwits.com*Small, light and they work ! The site has a comparison of all the tie downs available Hmmm, that's some comparison! Glad they definitively settled that one. According to their ultra scientific study (based on the risk of accidentally striking your wing while installing...) they have positively determined once and for all that their own system THEY sell is indeed actually "The Ultimate Aircraft Tiedown System". Good thing their team of crack scientists conducted such a thorough test of the parameters that really matter to pilots... Seriously, I wish I could find the photos Sporty's took of a large backhoe fitted with a tensiometer actually testing all the major available tiedowns to failure under the same conditions. The screw type and hockey puck thingies that (cheap) pilots are trying desperately to convince themselves can outperform the Claw (some of which are just as expensive), failed miserably LONG before the Claw anchors pulled out. Again, the Claw is substitute for permanent anchors, however there simply is not a portable solution that outperforms them for most situations (and by portable I mean no sledge hammers, no pipe wrenches, no parts longer than a foot, 10lbs, ie something you would actually carry in your ship) BTW, although they have spikes, that is the only system that does not rely on friction in the Z axis-hence the 10" long spikes. The forces are directed inwards at ~45deg in an equidistant triangle that is gripping the earth between the spikes. The harder you pull the harder they grab (until failure of course). The only situation they suck in is in loose gravel/ sand, and that's where the dittybag deal really shines. Actually I like when guys buy those screw types, as it is actually quite entertaining to watch people STRUGGLE to get them in (unfortunately they plane does not have to struggle much to pull them back out). The Claw gos in incredibly easy and hold far more then the competition. It's your plane though, so buy whatever you want. If your plane is parked next to mine though, don't be offended if you awake and see a Claw anchor or 2 added to your setup that almost let go in the middle of the night (happened several times already...). It's also nice not to have tripping hazards extending beyond the wing, not to mention having nothing to impale your wing/tire protruding above the ground, but to each their own. I think that one should carry both the Claw AND the dittybag system that Bill pioneered for a truly comprehensive and portable X/C set. That way your bases are covered whether you land on very loose or very hard ground, and one could use BOTH if really in trouble. (The Claw goes in fast enough to secure it in the wind, which would buy the time needed to fill the dittys) BTW, getting back to the OP, I for one am not a big fan of cam straps. The camstraps I have used in the past for securing loads on the road required re-cinching all too often (all brands I tried...). I stick w/ the ratchet types if using straps, but for going light/portable I have a little bit of 8mm spectra that fits the bill quite nicely. I trust my knots FAR more than cam buckles, but maybe I am just biased on that one. I don't like S-hooks either though, so I cut those off my straps and replace them w/stainless screw type D-shackles. -Paul |
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