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Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5
One prototype and 4 production machines were produced. The prototype
and first 3 machines had Wright R-3350's and the last machine built had Pratt & Whitney R-4360's. Later, the first three production machines had R-4360's installed and were modified to the last production machine's specs. A truly majestic aircraft by any standard. Paul On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 06:20:43 -0800, Savageduck wrote: On 2007-11-06 19:35:49 -0800, Square Wheels said: On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 22:09:09 +0000, SHIVER ME TIMBERS wrote: Square Wheels wrote: But according to news reports, BC did send several similar aircraft, probably from other companies or the Canadian Forces. I thought that Quebec sent a couple of the Canadair 215 ( radial ) or 415 ( turboprop ). But an interesting curious question based on your comments. Does the Canadian Forces have fire fighting aircraft. I wasn't aware that they did.... but what do I know. More than I do likely; I'm not an 'aircraft-guy', I just like looking at the pix and learning whatever I can.... My best friend was a commercial pilot until he developed pigmentary glaucoma, a friend and colleague is a commercial pilot and has written several books on aircraft and aircraft incidents, and my cousin was a highly-decorated fighter pilot in Viet Nam, so I definitely have an interest, just no particular talent for understanding it all that well...... But, I digress. I was certain I had seen nice CF-looking gray cargo-type planes dumping borate and water on forest fires here, but evidently not. The Martin Mars was in California on a spot contract. L.A. County has a fire season contract to have a "Super-Scooper" in place for the entire season with options to bring in additional support. Then The California Department of Forestry (CDF) has its own fire fighting airforce stationed at various airports throughout California, that is supplemented by contracted big load tankers such as converted DC7s. Additional help comes from the US Forestry Service, Cal Fire, and the various County, Municipal and volunteer fire services and helicopters from the California National Guard. The military aircraft you saw were C130's provided by the US Defence Department after the declared state of emergency. Other military helicopters were used by the Marine Corps to fight the fires at Camp Pendleton. I think they should know he http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/jobs...&bhfv=2&bhqs=1 but nary a mention.... Eh bien, liver and loin, live and learn, SW I should have been more clear on that point. Oh I was just having a little fun too. I can't remember just how many of the Martin Mars were built but it was a small number I'm sure. And I'm sure some kind sole will place the answer here... |
#12
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Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5
Ramapo wrote
A truly majestic aircraft by any standard. And a real treat to be able to see aviation heritage still being used. Visited Sproat Lake at Easter and got to sit in one - truly magnificent. Long may they rain. (Not reign - I know the difference!) RobG |
#13
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Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5
RobG wrote in
: Ramapo wrote A truly majestic aircraft by any standard. And a real treat to be able to see aviation heritage still being used. Visited Sproat Lake at Easter and got to sit in one - truly magnificent. Long may they rain. (Not reign - I know the difference!) RobG One of these great planes burned and sank off Hawaii. couple of years ago, the HURL team that found the USS Wards Japanese mini-sub also found the remains of that flying boat. the "Marshall Mars" http://starbulletin.com/2004/12/14/news/story4.html http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/HURL/ |
#14
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Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5
The US Navy only built about 6 of these Flying Boats at the end of World War
2. They were used on a freight and cargo run across the Pacific until the early '50's then scrapped. A BC forest company bought the remaining four of them from the scrap dealer and brought them to Victoria, B.C. in the late '50's. One was scrapped and used for parts after being damaged in a hurricane that hit Victoria and one crashed in the mid 60's fighting a fire behind Parksville, B.C.. This leaves 2 of the aircraft left. These aircraft are based in Sproat Lake near Port Alberni, B.C. They are the largest flying tankers of their type in existence. Steve "Michael Huber" wrote in message ... According to WP, a total of 6 Martin Mars were built: The first Hawaii Mars (lost 1947), the Marianas Mars (lost 1961), the Philippine Mars (with Coulson), the Marshall Mars (lost 1950), the Caroline Mars (lost 1962), and the second Hawaii Mars (with Coulson, the one photographed). So a total of two out of six survive, both working as firebombers for Coulson Flying Tankers. MH. |
#15
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Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5
"SHIVER ME TIMBERS" wrote in message
... Square Wheels wrote: But according to news reports, BC did send several similar aircraft, probably from other companies or the Canadian Forces. I thought that Quebec sent a couple of the Canadair 215 ( radial ) or 415 ( turboprop ). But an interesting curious question based on your comments. Does the Canadian Forces have fire fighting aircraft. I wasn't aware that they did.... but what do I know. I should have been more clear on that point. Oh I was just having a little fun too. I can't remember just how many of the Martin Mars were built but it was a small number I'm sure. And I'm sure some kind sole will place the answer here... "Kind sole"? Sounds fishy to me. :^) Natural resources like the forests are a provincial responsibility under the division of powers clause in the Constitution Act, 1867, so the provinces concerned (B.C., Alberta, Ontario and Quebec) maintain fleets of firefighting aircraft or have contractors do it for them; Ontario has nine CL-415s and Quebec has eight CL-415s, two CL-215Ts and four CL-215Ps. The CF have neither the role nor any firefighting capability, unless you count Griffons hauling buckets. -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) |
#16
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Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5
Andrew Chaplin wrote:
"SHIVER ME TIMBERS" wrote in message ... Square Wheels wrote: But according to news reports, BC did send several similar aircraft, probably from other companies or the Canadian Forces. I thought that Quebec sent a couple of the Canadair 215 ( radial ) or 415 ( turboprop ). But an interesting curious question based on your comments. Does the Canadian Forces have fire fighting aircraft. I wasn't aware that they did.... but what do I know. I should have been more clear on that point. Oh I was just having a little fun too. I can't remember just how many of the Martin Mars were built but it was a small number I'm sure. And I'm sure some kind sole will place the answer here... "Kind sole"? Sounds fishy to me. :^) Natural resources like the forests are a provincial responsibility under the division of powers clause in the Constitution Act, 1867, so the provinces concerned (B.C., Alberta, Ontario and Quebec) maintain fleets of firefighting aircraft or have contractors do it for them; Ontario has nine CL-415s and Quebec has eight CL-415s, two CL-215Ts and four CL-215Ps. The CF have neither the role nor any firefighting capability, unless you count Griffons hauling buckets. Considering the demand for fire fighting aircraft all over the world, I am surprised that an enterprising investor doesn't get behind a single model, high efficiency amphibian of new design and turn out a few hundred at a few millions a pop. Should be worth a United Nations Grant or something. Cheers, Dave |
#17
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Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5
I guess you have to look at the sales record of the Canadair offereing to
see how that fared. How many have they sold? Did they make a profit? How did they decide on the size? The other option would be to convert some of Russia's big seaplanes. And, they sure would love the work, if someone would buy them. Ron "CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message . .. Andrew Chaplin wrote: "SHIVER ME TIMBERS" wrote in message ... Square Wheels wrote: But according to news reports, BC did send several similar aircraft, probably from other companies or the Canadian Forces. I thought that Quebec sent a couple of the Canadair 215 ( radial ) or 415 ( turboprop ). But an interesting curious question based on your comments. Does the Canadian Forces have fire fighting aircraft. I wasn't aware that they did.... but what do I know. I should have been more clear on that point. Oh I was just having a little fun too. I can't remember just how many of the Martin Mars were built but it was a small number I'm sure. And I'm sure some kind sole will place the answer here... "Kind sole"? Sounds fishy to me. :^) Natural resources like the forests are a provincial responsibility under the division of powers clause in the Constitution Act, 1867, so the provinces concerned (B.C., Alberta, Ontario and Quebec) maintain fleets of firefighting aircraft or have contractors do it for them; Ontario has nine CL-415s and Quebec has eight CL-415s, two CL-215Ts and four CL-215Ps. The CF have neither the role nor any firefighting capability, unless you count Griffons hauling buckets. Considering the demand for fire fighting aircraft all over the world, I am surprised that an enterprising investor doesn't get behind a single model, high efficiency amphibian of new design and turn out a few hundred at a few millions a pop. Should be worth a United Nations Grant or something. Cheers, Dave |
#18
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Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5
"Savageduck" wrote in message news:2007111008312337709-savageduck@savagenet... There does seem to be some international distribution of the Canadair/Bombardier line, Spain has 15, Greece had 4 CL-215s, but lost one in the recent fires that they suffered. Minnesota has two. There may be other internation sales which Bombardier may be able to provide information on. It seems the CL-215 & CL-415 are versitile enough to provide justification for purchase or charter beyond some of the single purpose firefighting tankers. Manitoba has at least 3 CL-215s. In 2004 I was in the south of France and watched 13 CL-215s in close formation, no doubt flying out to battle a big blaze. Several hours later I saw them all returning in a pretty ragged formation. |
#19
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Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5
snip Considering the demand for fire fighting aircraft all over the world, I am surprised that an enterprising investor doesn't get behind a single model, high efficiency amphibian of new design and turn out a few hundred at a few millions a pop. Should be worth a United Nations Grant or something. Cheers, Dave Hmmmph! Thar' you go again proposing the economy of scale... A procedure which is not in any guv'ment's handbook! G JT |
#20
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Martin Mars at Lake Elsinore #5
Here is another though, surplus Shin Meiwa PS-1 amphibians. They are a lot
larger than the Bombardier planes, and have 4 turboprops. I think Japan is replacing them with newer SS-2s, based on the same airframe. Ron "Andrew Chaplin" wrote in message ... "SHIVER ME TIMBERS" wrote in message ... Square Wheels wrote: But according to news reports, BC did send several similar aircraft, probably from other companies or the Canadian Forces. I thought that Quebec sent a couple of the Canadair 215 ( radial ) or 415 ( turboprop ). But an interesting curious question based on your comments. Does the Canadian Forces have fire fighting aircraft. I wasn't aware that they did.... but what do I know. I should have been more clear on that point. Oh I was just having a little fun too. I can't remember just how many of the Martin Mars were built but it was a small number I'm sure. And I'm sure some kind sole will place the answer here... "Kind sole"? Sounds fishy to me. :^) Natural resources like the forests are a provincial responsibility under the division of powers clause in the Constitution Act, 1867, so the provinces concerned (B.C., Alberta, Ontario and Quebec) maintain fleets of firefighting aircraft or have contractors do it for them; Ontario has nine CL-415s and Quebec has eight CL-415s, two CL-215Ts and four CL-215Ps. The CF have neither the role nor any firefighting capability, unless you count Griffons hauling buckets. -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) |
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