Are they phasing out the S-3 too?

In article . net,
"Joe Delphi" wrote:

with of course no replacement, leaving the carrier force wide open to
submarine attack...



What submarines? Most of the ex-Soviet Union's subs are rusting away at
their docks. The submarines from other countries are diesel and noisy and
therefore not all that much of a threat.


A diesel sub on battery power is much quieter than a nuclear sub. They
are and always have been a challenging threat.


--Mike

"Vaughn" wrote in message
...

"Joe Delphi" wrote in message
ink.net...


The submarines from other countries are diesel and noisy and
therefore not all that much of a threat.

Yes, but when they shut down those diesels and lurk, they get very
quiet indeed! Their small size makes them even harder to find. The last
I heard, the US Navy considers conventional submarines to be a significant
threat.

Vaughn





I have read that Australian and NATO diesel subs have 'sunk' US carriers in
exercises.

The submarines from other countries are diesel and noisy and
therefore not all that much of a threat. BRBR

Not a bubblehead but the biggest threat today is from Chinese diesels, running
on battery power, in the Tiawan straights, waiting for a CV..
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Jeroen Wenting wrote:

"Andrew C. Toppan" wrote in message
.. .


On 24 Jan 2005 15:57:21 -0800, (Prowlus) wrote:



Is the S-3 Viking going to be retired?


Yes. This has been known for years.



with of course no replacement, leaving the carrier force wide open to
submarine attack...





All battle groups have attack subs attached...

Vaughn wrote:

"Joe Delphi" wrote in message
link.net...




The submarines from other countries are diesel and noisy and
therefore not all that much of a threat.



Yes, but when they shut down those diesels and lurk, they get very quiet
indeed! Their small size makes them even harder to find. The last I heard, the
US Navy considers conventional submarines to be a significant threat.

Vaughn






Which is why CVN's tend to stay in deep water far offshore.

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 06:07:45 GMT, "Joe Delphi"
wrote:

What submarines? Most of the ex-Soviet Union's subs are rusting away at
their docks. The submarines from other countries are diesel and noisy and
therefore not all that much of a threat.

You know nothing of submarines. Diesel submarines are quite often
more quiet than nukes.


--
Andrew Toppan --- --- "I speak only for myself"
"Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today,
Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - http://www.hazegray.org/

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 12:16:50 GMT, "Vaughn"
wrote:


"Joe Delphi" wrote in message
link.net...


The submarines from other countries are diesel and noisy and
therefore not all that much of a threat.

Yes, but when they shut down those diesels and lurk, they get very quiet
indeed! Their small size makes them even harder to find. The last I heard, the
US Navy considers conventional submarines to be a significant threat.

Ayup. Was certainly true during my time (70s-80s) and I don't think
much has changed.

A nuke, lurking, can be damn near as quiet as a diesel on batteries.
Not as, but damn near. A sub who wants to "lurk" will be found more
by accident than design. The problem for the sub is that if he lurks
in the wrong place then he has to move and when he moves he is
vulnerable. Nukes because they make much more noise, conventionals
because any kind of speed rapidly drains battery capacity, requiring a
charge and once the diesels start to fire it's "whoa Nelly"
accousticly-wise speaking! ;-)

Put an sub-surface to surface missle on a conventional sub and put him
on the track of a battle group and you can give an admiral a real bad
day.

Bill Kambic

Veteran, VS/VP

From: (Pechs1)

The submarines from other countries are diesel and noisy and
therefore not all that much of a threat.

Not a bubblehead but the biggest threat today is from Chinese diesels,
runningon battery power, in the Tiawan straights, waiting for a CV..P. C.
ChisholmCDR, USN(ret.)Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and
Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Whoever wrote what you replied to is an idiot. Diesel subs are noisy only while
surfaced to recharge batteries but once submerged are extremely difficult to
detect.

China being so close to Taiwan could launch Diesl subs carrying ground troops
all the way across the straights in numbers large enough to take over Taiwan
with few being detected.

As a former member of VS-29 I can assure you submarines are hard to find and
submerged diesels are very hard to find.

On 29 Jan 2005 02:15:00 GMT, isme (NimBill) wrote:

From: (Pechs1)

The submarines from other countries are diesel and noisy and
therefore not all that much of a threat.

Not a bubblehead but the biggest threat today is from Chinese diesels,
runningon battery power, in the Tiawan straights, waiting for a CV..P. C.
ChisholmCDR, USN(ret.)Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and
Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Whoever wrote what you replied to is an idiot. Diesel subs are noisy only while
surfaced to recharge batteries but once submerged are extremely difficult to
detect.

I seem to recall that they are rather loud when snorting, too.

China being so close to Taiwan could launch Diesl subs carrying ground troops
all the way across the straights in numbers large enough to take over Taiwan
with few being detected.

How about the number we would detect in port loading out? Then
there's the problem of getting them ashore without their rubber boats
being sunk by guys on the beach with rifles.

Or, put another way, I hope this is some sort of exercise of poetic
license.

As a former member of VS-29 I can assure you submarines are hard to find and
submerged diesels are very hard to find.

As a former member of VS-27, VS-30, VS-73, VP-93, and a couple of
FASODETs I agree with you. But a diesel on batteries is also slow
and, consequently, limited in mobility. Armed with long range
torpedos or missles they are a real threat. But it is not an
insurmountable threat.

Bill Kambic

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 00:16:14 -0500, wrote:

Whoever wrote what you replied to is an idiot. Diesel subs are noisy only while
surfaced to recharge batteries but once submerged are extremely difficult to
detect.

I seem to recall that they are rather loud when snorting, too.

"surfaced to recharge" and "snorting" are pretty much the same thing
in terms of noise - the diesel is running. Once you turn off the
diesel, they can be very, very quiet indeed.

--
Andrew Toppan --- --- "I speak only for myself"
"Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today,
Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - http://www.hazegray.org/