Saw President Bush's plane (response to "Saw J.T.'s Plane")

The "Saw John Trovolta's Plane" thread got me thinking about
inaccessibility of celebs but nothing compares to the way Bush is
protected from us normal folk!

I'm an A&P student here at Texas State Technical College and our
campus is the old James Connally Air Force Base (Waco, TX.). When Bush
goes to & from Crawford, Air Force One lands & parks here as Waco
Regional's runways are too short for a 747. He then takes Air Force 2
(big helicopter) out to or from his ranch, flanked by several other
mean looking choppers as well as identical decoys, I assume.

Within several hours of Bush's arrival or departure this college
begins to metamorphasize into a place of high tension. There's a
bright orange, fast helicopter that flies a long grid pattern over &
around the campus and this part of Waco. I assume it has much high-
tech gadgetry which can detect anything or anyone potentially
threatening to Bush's safety.

Nobody (not even ATC) knows exactly when AFO is supposed to arrive or
depart but you know it's soon when the area 1/4 to 1/2 mile
surrounding the TSTC control tower building is ridden of all humanity
except lots of dark-windowed cars & SUVs & dark-suited, tense people
with dark glasses. Oh, yeah, and there's lots of german shepherds,
too. If you happen to have class or lab within the sterile zone you
are out of luck for the next hour or two. I have personally missed
several labs & classes because the A&P hangar is well within the
sterile zone (as is pilot training, dental assistant tech. and sub-sea
robotics).

Immediately after 9/11 the entire campus shut down for Bush's arrivals
& departures. You could not go out of or into any building, you were
literally stuck. Before 9/11 one could stand out on the tarmac and
watch AFO taxi up while Bush deplaned or boarded.

Recently I was driving home for lunch and noticed AFO entering the
pattern at TSTC. I reversed my direction and sped through the edge of
the campus to get right under the 747 during it's final. It was quite
a thrill to be directly underneath this rather beautiful jet. I have
heard of dark-suited men in dark SUVs ordering people to put their
cameras away at the arrival or departure ends of Rwy 17 or 35. I guess
one could hide a rocket launcher in your digital if you knew how.

If Bush is not on the plane one can hang out at the tower building on
the tarmac while AFO taxis up directly in front, which is where Bush
boards and deplanes. It then parks across the airport at L3
Communications while Bush enjoys his Western White House.
It is also fortunate that the general public can walk up to AFO while
it's parked at the tower and get just about right under the wingtip,
outside of the rope which surrounds it. This truly is one beauty of a
747. Photos are welcomed as well during this time.

I have heard stories of student pilots trapped out in the TSTC
practice areas in the 95-100 degree Tx. sun in their 152s or Katanas
while Bush comes & goes, even having to divert to Hillsboro or Mexia
due to fuel concerns.
I earned my Commercial/Instrument here but do not currently fly in
Waco so I can't comment on the frustrations generated by the TFR. I
think pilots around here have learned to live with it for the most
part. A few times a year the Waco paper will be headlined with the
hapless pilot who strayed into the TFR only to be quickly escorted to
McGregor by a pair of F-16s or F-18s.

I do count myself fortunate to experience the comings & goings of AFO
and the C-5 which arrives a day or so prior to Bush, these are amazing
aircraft for neophyte mechanic and pilot students to watch land, take
off & taxi. Our classes usually are interuptted by the C-5's arrival.
It's just too cool to watch this huge aircraft land, taxi up just
outside our hangar, raise it's entire nose section and unload the
multitude of vehicles and "stuff" that heralds Bush's arrival.

Handshakes & autographs? Out of the question. All human beings are
ordered away. The consequnce will not be an FBO denied business,
however, it will likely be a high-powered rifle bullet to the head!

Ricky

Ricky wrote:
The "Saw John Trovolta's Plane" thread got me thinking about
inaccessibility of celebs but nothing compares to the way Bush is
protected from us normal folk!

I'm an A&P student here at Texas State Technical College and our
campus is the old James Connally Air Force Base (Waco, TX.). When Bush
goes to & from Crawford, Air Force One lands & parks here as Waco
Regional's runways are too short for a 747. He then takes Air Force 2
(big helicopter) out to or from his ranch, flanked by several other
mean looking choppers as well as identical decoys, I assume.

Within several hours of Bush's arrival or departure this college
begins to metamorphasize into a place of high tension. There's a
bright orange, fast helicopter that flies a long grid pattern over &
around the campus and this part of Waco. I assume it has much high-
tech gadgetry which can detect anything or anyone potentially
threatening to Bush's safety.

Nobody (not even ATC) knows exactly when AFO is supposed to arrive or
depart but you know it's soon when the area 1/4 to 1/2 mile
surrounding the TSTC control tower building is ridden of all humanity
except lots of dark-windowed cars & SUVs & dark-suited, tense people
with dark glasses. Oh, yeah, and there's lots of german shepherds,
too. If you happen to have class or lab within the sterile zone you
are out of luck for the next hour or two. I have personally missed
several labs & classes because the A&P hangar is well within the
sterile zone (as is pilot training, dental assistant tech. and sub-sea
robotics).

Immediately after 9/11 the entire campus shut down for Bush's arrivals
& departures. You could not go out of or into any building, you were
literally stuck. Before 9/11 one could stand out on the tarmac and
watch AFO taxi up while Bush deplaned or boarded.

Recently I was driving home for lunch and noticed AFO entering the
pattern at TSTC. I reversed my direction and sped through the edge of
the campus to get right under the 747 during it's final. It was quite
a thrill to be directly underneath this rather beautiful jet. I have
heard of dark-suited men in dark SUVs ordering people to put their
cameras away at the arrival or departure ends of Rwy 17 or 35. I guess
one could hide a rocket launcher in your digital if you knew how.

If Bush is not on the plane one can hang out at the tower building on
the tarmac while AFO taxis up directly in front, which is where Bush
boards and deplanes. It then parks across the airport at L3
Communications while Bush enjoys his Western White House.
It is also fortunate that the general public can walk up to AFO while
it's parked at the tower and get just about right under the wingtip,
outside of the rope which surrounds it. This truly is one beauty of a
747. Photos are welcomed as well during this time.

I have heard stories of student pilots trapped out in the TSTC
practice areas in the 95-100 degree Tx. sun in their 152s or Katanas
while Bush comes & goes, even having to divert to Hillsboro or Mexia
due to fuel concerns.
I earned my Commercial/Instrument here but do not currently fly in
Waco so I can't comment on the frustrations generated by the TFR. I
think pilots around here have learned to live with it for the most
part. A few times a year the Waco paper will be headlined with the
hapless pilot who strayed into the TFR only to be quickly escorted to
McGregor by a pair of F-16s or F-18s.

I do count myself fortunate to experience the comings & goings of AFO
and the C-5 which arrives a day or so prior to Bush, these are amazing
aircraft for neophyte mechanic and pilot students to watch land, take
off & taxi. Our classes usually are interuptted by the C-5's arrival.
It's just too cool to watch this huge aircraft land, taxi up just
outside our hangar, raise it's entire nose section and unload the
multitude of vehicles and "stuff" that heralds Bush's arrival.

Handshakes & autographs? Out of the question. All human beings are
ordered away. The consequnce will not be an FBO denied business,
however, it will likely be a high-powered rifle bullet to the head!

Ricky

Give me a break. Has anyone been shot attempting to greet the
president? The answer is no, you might get arrested but your not going
to get shot for trying to get close to him. Presidents are at more risk
of getting shot then people approaching him. You most certainly will get
a gun pointed at you but it won't be fired.

The other issue is the presidents movements usurping public spaces and
disrupting commerce and blocking the public's constitutionally
protected freedom of movement (and the VP, and the Speaker, ad
nauseum)...
The day will come when someone will lose a contract, or some such
event, because the unannounced movements of the president and men in
dark suits blocking off public spaces. A lawsuit will result and the
government will lose - as it is a clear issue that no one has the
constitutional right to interrupt the citizenry's access to public
spaces, roads, parks, the airspace, etc... We already tossed one King
off the continent over these types of issues...

I have no desire to see the president injured, or even threatened, but
when it comes to violating my rights versus his 'possible' injury
because he has chosen to go out in public, he will have to take his
chances just like I do when I step off my porch every morning...

denny

Denny wrote:
The other issue is the presidents movements usurping public spaces and
disrupting commerce and blocking the public's constitutionally
protected freedom of movement (and the VP, and the Speaker, ad
nauseum)...
The day will come when someone will lose a contract, or some such
event, because the unannounced movements of the president and men in
dark suits blocking off public spaces. A lawsuit will result and the
government will lose - as it is a clear issue that no one has the
constitutional right to interrupt the citizenry's access to public
spaces, roads, parks, the airspace, etc... We already tossed one King
off the continent over these types of issues...

I have no desire to see the president injured, or even threatened, but
when it comes to violating my rights versus his 'possible' injury
because he has chosen to go out in public, he will have to take his
chances just like I do when I step off my porch every morning...

denny

Security around the President is hardly a new thing.

But while sovereign immunity has been reduced much over the years national
security issues is one place where it still carries some weight and I see no
court deciding that protection of the President should be secondary to some
commercial loss.

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

But while sovereign immunity has been reduced much over the years national
security issues is one place where it still carries some weight and I see no
court deciding that protection of the President should be secondary to some
commercial loss.

Why not? The USA is a democracy, and the President is only one part of a
government that employs a balance of powers. This being so, there's a limit
to the President's importance to the nation, and therefore a limit to the
measures that can reasonably be justified to protect him. The constant
inflationary spiral of these measures has to stop somewhere. Bringing a city
to a halt is not really justified, not even for the President.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Gig 601XL Builder writes:

But while sovereign immunity has been reduced much over the years
national security issues is one place where it still carries some
weight and I see no court deciding that protection of the President
should be secondary to some commercial loss.

Why not? The USA is a democracy, and the President is only one part
of a government that employs a balance of powers. This being so,
there's a limit to the President's importance to the nation, and
therefore a limit to the measures that can reasonably be justified to
protect him. The constant inflationary spiral of these measures has
to stop somewhere. Bringing a city to a halt is not really
justified, not even for the President.



First off no, the USA isn't and never was. It is a representative republic.
The President and Vice President are the only two representatives who are
elected by the entire electorate. That does give them a certain higher
standing than the other members of our government.

But that aside the majority of the citizens of the US feel that the POTUS is
of significant enough importance to allow those who are charged with his
well being a certain latitude in his protection. While a individual or even
many individulas might have in the past or in the future suffer some
financial loss due to the steps required to protect the POTUS it pales in
comparison to the loss that would be suffered by many, many people should he
be killed, especially should that attack be part of a larger attack on our
country. The loss may well be caused by purely emotional reactions but that
doesn't make the loss any less.

Bringing a city to a halt is, to say the least, a little overstated. Bush
was here in little old El Dorado Arkansas (pop. ~20k) before the last
election. The town didn't come to a halt. A matter of fact if you weren't in
a 4 block radius of where he was speaking you wouldn't have known he was in
town. As a matter of fact I went to the airport where AF1 was sitting
(though it wasn't the 747 it was a 757)and was allowed inside the fence and
allowed to go to my hanger. There was a police officer there who asked why I
was there. When I pointed to the airplane tires in the back of my truck and
to my hanger he said, "Have a nice day and please leave via this exit." This
was mainly because AF1 was parked 50 yards from the other exit and I would
have had to drive past it.

As far as the limit to the POTUS's importance to the US, yes there is a
limit as there is a limit to what can be done to protect him. But, at least
at this point the general public doesn't think that limit has been exceeded.

Keep in mind that even though you are making great headway in the
competition there are still a lot more people that would want to do harm to
the POTUS than there are that want to do so to the average citizen.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...

Security around the President is hardly a new thing.

It's weird, though. When Bush comes to town his appearance location is
secret, private or surrounded by cyclone fences.

My ex-girlfriend got to shake Clinton's hand in the Portland State
University park blocks. (That was before the Lewinski thing.) Security
everywhere, but he could still get out there and meet the general public.
Maybe it's 'cause we're at war now, but, the change hasn't exactly gone over
well here.

-c

Gattman wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...

Security around the President is hardly a new thing.

It's weird, though. When Bush comes to town his appearance location
is secret, private or surrounded by cyclone fences.

My ex-girlfriend got to shake Clinton's hand in the Portland State
University park blocks. (That was before the Lewinski thing.) Security
everywhere, but he could still get out there and meet the
general public. Maybe it's 'cause we're at war now, but, the change
hasn't exactly gone over well here.

-c

I know several people that got to shake Bush's hand when he was here before
the last election. As a matter of fact his motorcade came within a block of
my house well within shooting distance and though I was at work when he
actually drove by there was no visible security on the route 30 minutes
before.

I think the level of security changes with possible threats. Obviously his
security felt safer when he was in South Arkansas.

Gattman writes:

Maybe it's 'cause we're at war now, but, the change hasn't exactly gone over
well here.

The U.S. is not at war.

The current President seems to be much more fearful than most of his
predecessors.

On Aug 30, 5:30 am, Denny wrote:
The other issue is the presidents movements usurping public spaces and
disrupting commerce and blocking the public's constitutionally
protected freedom of movement (and the VP, and the Speaker, ad
nauseum)...
The day will come when someone will lose a contract, or some such
event, because the unannounced movements of the president and men in
dark suits blocking off public spaces. A lawsuit will result and the
government will lose - as it is a clear issue that no one has the
constitutional right to interrupt the citizenry's access to public
spaces, roads, parks, the airspace, etc... We already tossed one King
off the continent over these types of issues...

I have no desire to see the president injured, or even threatened, but
when it comes to violating my rights versus his 'possible' injury
because he has chosen to go out in public, he will have to take his
chances just like I do when I step off my porch every morning...

denny

Funny you should mention that. President Bush's recent visit to
Seattle delayed me over an hour while I was on my way to the
pharmacist. What if it had been an emergency and I had died? There
were no alternative routes due to the constrictions of lots of water
and narrow bits of land in the Seattle area.

The Southcenter Mall was virtually shut down for hours. The entire
mall! Because the police had blocked off *every* road that led to it.
You probably could have fired a cannon through there and not hit
anyone. Bush was not anywhere near the mall except for two periods of
less than five minutes as he traveled the freeway nearby.

In fact, people have been killed by Presidential motorcades, some
recently. These things are dangerous. The Secret Service really needs
to work on the disruption and hazards to safety caused by their
security. Just because the SS guys are willing to take a bullet for
the President does not meant that everyone else in the country feels
the same way.