Flyboys?

I just picked up a copy of Flyboys at BJ's Wholesale Club. Read the
first two chapters last night.

I was amazed that the author uses the term Flyboys throughout the
book, or at least throughout the first chapter. I'd assumed it was
just a cute title, but no: "Flyboys were over Chici Jima" etc.

When I was growing up--which was about the time of these
events--"flyboy" was a derisive name. It's what a ground-pounder would
say when he complained about the soft life pilots (indeed air crews)
had, compared to the infantry in the mud.

Anyone else ever heard it this way? Any mllitary pilots here ever
refer to themselves as flyboys or Flyboys?

Thanks!

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Nope, but I have had it thrown in my face once or twice. By a ground
pounder.
Curt

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

I just picked up a copy of Flyboys at BJ's Wholesale Club. Read the
first two chapters last night.

I was amazed that the author uses the term Flyboys throughout the
book, or at least throughout the first chapter. I'd assumed it was
just a cute title, but no: "Flyboys were over Chici Jima" etc.

When I was growing up--which was about the time of these
events--"flyboy" was a derisive name. It's what a ground-pounder would
say when he complained about the soft life pilots (indeed air crews)
had, compared to the infantry in the mud.

Anyone else ever heard it this way? Any mllitary pilots here ever
refer to themselves as flyboys or Flyboys?

Thanks!

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

I just picked up a copy of Flyboys at BJ's Wholesale Club. Read the
first two chapters last night.

I was amazed that the author uses the term Flyboys throughout the
book, or at least throughout the first chapter. I'd assumed it was
just a cute title, but no: "Flyboys were over Chici Jima" etc.

When I was growing up--which was about the time of these
events--"flyboy" was a derisive name. It's what a ground-pounder would
say when he complained about the soft life pilots (indeed air crews)
had, compared to the infantry in the mud.

Anyone else ever heard it this way? Any mllitary pilots here ever
refer to themselves as flyboys or Flyboys?

Thanks!

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

We may differ on other subjects, we we sure as hell don't differ on this one. I
was a pilot during WWII, the Korean War, and the Viet Nam war, and I never once
called myself or thought of myself as a "flyboy". The people I flew with may
have been young, but they were men, and the overwhelming majority of them didn't
even vaguely resemble the irresponsible bird-brains that the term infers. It
may very well be what the green-eyed ground pounders called us, but usually not
to our faces, particularly if we outranked them. I always looked on that term
as a put down, however mistaken it might have been.

When the book first came out and got public attention, I mentioned this to my
wife, and she told me that she thought I was making too much of it. I'm glad to
learn that there are at least two of us who think otherwise.

BTW, I haven't read the book nor do I plan to. If he got that wrong, I can't
help but think that the rest of his book is probably full of other things that
he didn't quite get right.

George Z.

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

I just picked up a copy of Flyboys at BJ's Wholesale Club. Read the
first two chapters last night.

I was amazed that the author uses the term Flyboys throughout the
book, or at least throughout the first chapter. I'd assumed it was
just a cute title, but no: "Flyboys were over Chici Jima" etc.

When I was growing up--which was about the time of these
events--"flyboy" was a derisive name. It's what a ground-pounder would
say when he complained about the soft life pilots (indeed air crews)
had, compared to the infantry in the mud.

Anyone else ever heard it this way? Any mllitary pilots here ever
refer to themselves as flyboys or Flyboys?

Well, I realize you have asked for a "military pilot's" opinion, but
considering everything involved with how that relates to me, I'll answer the
post anyway :-)
I just finished the book. My reaction was similar to yours, but slightly
different perhaps.
The term itself was quite common as you know back during the war. It was
used by the pounders and civilians as well. I remember my mother using the
term on occasion.
As for the Bradley; if I was reviewing the book, ( I don't "review" books
any more :-) I would come away with the feeling that he is overusing the
term both in the book as you have noted, and as well by assigning it through
inference if nothing else in a completely naval context, which in my opinion
is incorrect. I believe the use of the term was generic in assignment.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

I just picked up a copy of Flyboys at BJ's Wholesale Club. Read the
first two chapters last night.

I was amazed that the author uses the term Flyboys throughout the
book, or at least throughout the first chapter. I'd assumed it was
just a cute title, but no: "Flyboys were over Chici Jima" etc.

When I was growing up--which was about the time of these
events--"flyboy" was a derisive name. It's what a ground-pounder would
say when he complained about the soft life pilots (indeed air crews)
had, compared to the infantry in the mud.

Anyone else ever heard it this way? Any mllitary pilots here ever
refer to themselves as flyboys or Flyboys?

Thanks!

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

We may differ on other subjects, we we sure as hell don't differ on this
one. I
was a pilot during WWII, the Korean War, and the Viet Nam war, and I never
once
called myself or thought of myself as a "flyboy". The people I flew with
may
have been young, but they were men, and the overwhelming majority of them
didn't
even vaguely resemble the irresponsible bird-brains that the term infers.
It
may very well be what the green-eyed ground pounders called us, but
usually not
to our faces, particularly if we outranked them. I always looked on that
term
as a put down, however mistaken it might have been.

When the book first came out and got public attention, I mentioned this to
my
wife, and she told me that she thought I was making too much of it. I'm
glad to
learn that there are at least two of us who think otherwise.

BTW, I haven't read the book nor do I plan to. If he got that wrong, I
can't
help but think that the rest of his book is probably full of other things
that
he didn't quite get right.

George Z.

Although I'm sure there were those who might have used this term in a
derogatory way, it should be noted that the term itself is so generic that
it's use was certainly not limited to a negative context alone.
I'm fairly certain that there were many who used this term in an extremely
positive sense as the term related to them personally, and their positive
feelings about those who were fighting above them or for them, and in many
cases, protecting them.
I know that in my years of association with those who have flown in harm's
way, I can't remember anyone having a violent reaction to the term.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

Subject: Flyboys?
From: "Dudley Henriques"
Date: 12/16/03 7:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: et


"Cub Driver" wrote in message
.. .

I just picked up a copy of Flyboys at BJ's Wholesale Club. Read the
first two chapters last night.

I was amazed that the author uses the term Flyboys throughout the
book, or at least throughout the first chapter. I'd assumed it was
just a cute title, but no: "Flyboys were over Chici Jima" etc.

When I was growing up--which was about the time of these
events--"flyboy" was a derisive name. It's what a ground-pounder would
say when he complained about the soft life pilots (indeed air crews)
had, compared to the infantry in the mud.

Anyone else ever heard it this way? Any mllitary pilots here ever
refer to themselves as flyboys or Flyboys?

Well, I realize you have asked for a "military pilot's" opinion, but
considering everything involved with how that relates to me, I'll answer the
post anyway :-)
I just finished the book. My reaction was similar to yours, but slightly
different perhaps.
The term itself was quite common as you know back during the war. It was
used by the pounders and civilians as well. I remember my mother using the
term on occasion.
As for the Bradley; if I was reviewing the book, ( I don't "review" books
any more :-) I would come away with the feeling that he is overusing the
term both in the book as you have noted, and as well by assigning it through
inference if nothing else in a completely naval context, which in my opinion
is incorrect. I believe the use of the term was generic in assignment.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt



Right you are Dudley. Flyboys was ususally a term of admiration and envy. The
best, the brightest and the chosen. The elite of the armed forces. Of course
tone of voice could mitigate that And it applied to all who flew, not just
pilots., Ground pounders applied to infantry. But those in an AAC squadron who
were not on flying status were called "Paddlefeet" I think the guy who wrote
Flyboys knew whereof he spoke

Regards,

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Flyboys?
From: "C Knowles"
Date: 12/16/03 4:21 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Nope, but I have had it thrown in my face once or twice. By a ground
pounder.
Curt

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
.. .

I just picked up a copy of Flyboys at BJ's Wholesale Club. Read the
first two chapters last night.

I was amazed that the author uses the term Flyboys throughout the
book, or at least throughout the first chapter. I'd assumed it was
just a cute title, but no: "Flyboys were over Chici Jima" etc.

When I was growing up--which was about the time of these
events--"flyboy" was a derisive name. It's what a ground-pounder would
say when he complained about the soft life pilots (indeed air crews)
had, compared to the infantry in the mud.

Anyone else ever heard it this way? Any mllitary pilots here ever
refer to themselves as flyboys or Flyboys?

Thanks!

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com




Flyboy was a term of admiration and envy. Of course tone of voice had
something to do with it too.

Regards,


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Flyboys?
From: "Dudley Henriques"
Date: 12/16/03 7:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: et


"Cub Driver" wrote in message
.. .

I just picked up a copy of Flyboys at BJ's Wholesale Club. Read the
first two chapters last night.

I was amazed that the author uses the term Flyboys throughout the
book, or at least throughout the first chapter. I'd assumed it was
just a cute title, but no: "Flyboys were over Chici Jima" etc.

When I was growing up--which was about the time of these
events--"flyboy" was a derisive name. It's what a ground-pounder would
say when he complained about the soft life pilots (indeed air crews)
had, compared to the infantry in the mud.

Anyone else ever heard it this way? Any mllitary pilots here ever
refer to themselves as flyboys or Flyboys?

Well, I realize you have asked for a "military pilot's" opinion, but
considering everything involved with how that relates to me, I'll answer
the
post anyway :-)
I just finished the book. My reaction was similar to yours, but slightly
different perhaps.
The term itself was quite common as you know back during the war. It was
used by the pounders and civilians as well. I remember my mother using
the
term on occasion.
As for the Bradley; if I was reviewing the book, ( I don't "review" books
any more :-) I would come away with the feeling that he is overusing the
term both in the book as you have noted, and as well by assigning it
through
inference if nothing else in a completely naval context, which in my
opinion
is incorrect. I believe the use of the term was generic in assignment.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt



Right you are Dudley. Flyboys was ususally a term of admiration and
envy. The
best, the brightest and the chosen. The elite of the armed forces. Of
course
tone of voice could mitigate that And it applied to all who flew, not
just
pilots., Ground pounders applied to infantry. But those in an AAC squadron
who
were not on flying status were called "Paddlefeet" I think the guy who
wrote
Flyboys knew whereof he spoke

Regards,

I think the term "flyboys" is indicative of many of like terms that sprung
up throughout the war. I believe you are absolutely correct in saying that
any meaning or connotation attached to such terms would have to include
exactly who was using the term and the context under which the term was
being used. To arbitrarily assign either a positive or negative meaning to
such a term without context being involved is in my judgment incorrect. On
one hand, you can have a disgruntled soldier looking up into the sky saying
to his buddy, "Flyboys are over rated idiots!". Then on the other hand you
have a woman standing on a London street corner in her bombed out
neighborhood watching a Spit dispatching a Ju88 muttering to herself, "Thank
GOD for the flyboys!" Both are valid uses of the term; one is negative, one
positive. It's just that kind of thing......a slang expression that brings
one closer to what one might not have the "right" words to express......a
way of expressing an intimate contact where intimate contact might not
exist.
I do believe that Bradley really overworked the term in "Flyboys".
His continuous use of the term throughout the book reminded me of some of
these rock groups where the group seemingly finds a chord or harmony run
that sounds REAL good to them, so they work it over and over and over and
over and over.....until it's been done so many times that the initial
benefit on the ear has been lost through sheer repetition.
:-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

On 16 Dec 2003 16:17:44 GMT, ArtKramr wrote:

Flyboy was a term of admiration and envy. Of course tone of voice had
something to do with it too.

Sort of like when your TI in basic training calls you "hero..."
("What are you, some type of he-ro?")

-Jeff B.
yeff at erols dot com

Subject: Flyboys?
From: "Dudley Henriques"
Date: 12/16/03 8:28 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: et


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Flyboys?
From: "Dudley Henriques"
Date: 12/16/03 7:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: et


"Cub Driver" wrote in message
.. .

I just picked up a copy of Flyboys at BJ's Wholesale Club. Read the
first two chapters last night.

I was amazed that the author uses the term Flyboys throughout the
book, or at least throughout the first chapter. I'd assumed it was
just a cute title, but no: "Flyboys were over Chici Jima" etc.

When I was growing up--which was about the time of these
events--"flyboy" was a derisive name. It's what a ground-pounder would
say when he complained about the soft life pilots (indeed air crews)
had, compared to the infantry in the mud.

Anyone else ever heard it this way? Any mllitary pilots here ever
refer to themselves as flyboys or Flyboys?

Well, I realize you have asked for a "military pilot's" opinion, but
considering everything involved with how that relates to me, I'll answer
the
post anyway :-)
I just finished the book. My reaction was similar to yours, but slightly
different perhaps.
The term itself was quite common as you know back during the war. It was
used by the pounders and civilians as well. I remember my mother using
the
term on occasion.
As for the Bradley; if I was reviewing the book, ( I don't "review" books
any more :-) I would come away with the feeling that he is overusing the
term both in the book as you have noted, and as well by assigning it
through
inference if nothing else in a completely naval context, which in my
opinion
is incorrect. I believe the use of the term was generic in assignment.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt



Right you are Dudley. Flyboys was ususally a term of admiration and
envy. The
best, the brightest and the chosen. The elite of the armed forces. Of
course
tone of voice could mitigate that And it applied to all who flew, not
just
pilots., Ground pounders applied to infantry. But those in an AAC squadron
who
were not on flying status were called "Paddlefeet" I think the guy who
wrote
Flyboys knew whereof he spoke

Regards,

I think the term "flyboys" is indicative of many of like terms that sprung
up throughout the war. I believe you are absolutely correct in saying that
any meaning or connotation attached to such terms would have to include
exactly who was using the term and the context under which the term was
being used. To arbitrarily assign either a positive or negative meaning to
such a term without context being involved is in my judgment incorrect. On
one hand, you can have a disgruntled soldier looking up into the sky saying
to his buddy, "Flyboys are over rated idiots!". Then on the other hand you
have a woman standing on a London street corner in her bombed out
neighborhood watching a Spit dispatching a Ju88 muttering to herself, "Thank
GOD for the flyboys!" Both are valid uses of the term; one is negative, one
positive. It's just that kind of thing......a slang expression that brings
one closer to what one might not have the "right" words to express......a
way of expressing an intimate contact where intimate contact might not
exist.
I do believe that Bradley really overworked the term in "Flyboys".
His continuous use of the term throughout the book reminded me of some of
these rock groups where the group seemingly finds a chord or harmony run
that sounds REAL good to them, so they work it over and over and over and
over and over.....until it's been done so many times that the initial
benefit on the ear has been lost through sheer repetition.
:-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt



Flyboys was often used with a warm element of effection attached to it.

Regards,

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer