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#51
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"Magda" wrote in message ... The question is : does Steve *think* at all ? Steve thinks constantly. |
#52
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In article k.net,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote: "Magda" wrote in message ... The question is : does Steve *think* at all ? Steve thinks constantly. Does Steve ever offer any support for arguments other than his own declarations? While I don't consider Biblical quotes authoritative, the religious conservatives that cite them at least demonstrate some research and logic. |
#53
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"Oelewapper" wrote in message
... .. One term, and he's out. Don't bet your life on it. Jarg |
#54
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"Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message ... Does Steve ever offer any support for arguments other than his own declarations? Yes, review the thread. |
#55
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"Magda" wrote in message ... But with the small head *only*. Your position is illogical. |
#56
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In article k.net,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote: "Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message ... Does Steve ever offer any support for arguments other than his own declarations? Yes, review the thread. I have reviewed it, and you never do anything except make flat statements with no references. |
#57
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Howard Berkowitz wrote in message ...
In article k.net, "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote: "Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message ... Does Steve ever offer any support for arguments other than his own declarations? Yes, review the thread. I have reviewed it, and you never do anything except make flat statements with no references. It has been rather a pythonesque performance, hasn't it? To paraphrase: "An argument isn't just contradiction. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition. Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes." "No it isn't". We still await Mr McNicoll's reasoning beyond his flat statement that marriage is only possible within the rather narrow definition in which he holds it. Marriage is a human construct, no other primate other than Homo sapiens indulges in it. And it is a rather modern human construct. Furthermore that which passes for "marriage" in the USA is a very new construct subscribed to by perhaps 20% of the world's peoples. To assert that term "marriage" is immutable and that the English language is rigid in its definition is hardly supported by events. In 1950 any male would have proudly proclaimed himself to be "gay" as in "I'm a gay bachelor". A few years later this was no longer the case. Words are not sacrosanct, their meanings do change - in fact because language is dynamic they change almost contantly, albeit slowly, usually. Anyone with a weakness for Shakespeare and Chaucer will attest to that! Returning to the subject of marriage, for a long period in human history this had reference to the "joining" of property and power rather than what we consider today - love etc. Admittedly the joining did mostly involve two persons of the opposite sex. Especially as one of the avowed purposes was procreation and the creation of heirs. But as marriage largely also involves the legal union of two properties there is no reason whatsoever why its definition should be confined to persons of the opposite sex. Humans invented it, humans can change it. We have no carved tablets of stone defining marriage ultimately. Marriage is defined legally (even in religious systems), and the ramifications are both extensive, complicated and vary from legal system to legal system. And are subject to continuous change. It is possible (though highly unlikely, of course) for a government to forbid marriage between members of the opposite sex and only condone it between members of the same sex. Strange things have happened in law! However Mr McNicolls' avid and vehement assertion to the effect that "it is not possible" is clearly without universal status. It may be true in a certain place, at a given time and within a known legal system, but is not a universal truth. On a personal note, and for reasons I will not go into here, I do find same sex marriages a little self-defeating. But as has been pointed out, there are legal benefits to be gained under many legal systems - and while these are being extended to male-female unions it is discriminatory to withhold them from equally valid same sex unions. Marriage is after all just a contract between two parties. Eugene Griessel |
#58
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#59
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Lo, many moons past, on Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:45:19 GMT, a stranger
called by some "Steven P. McNicoll" came forth and told this tale in us.military.army "Douglas Berry" wrote in message .. . Marriage exists in the United States. Competant adults who happen to be gay are denied this civil right. Not true. Competent adults who happen to be gay have exactly the same right to marry a person of the opposite sex that competent adults that are not gay have. Which is an unacceptable violation of the California Constitution, Article 1, Section 31, because it discriminates on the basis of sex. No, they ceremonies have been performed, and the certificates, same as the one my wife and I have, have been issued. Those certificates are not valid. So far, not a single court has agreed with you. -- Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail WE *ARE* UMA Lemmings 404 Local |
#60
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"Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message ... I have reviewed it, and you never do anything except make flat statements with no references. Then you haven't reviewed all of it. |
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