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#1
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pre-IFR training/preparation?
I will be starting IFR training soon and would like to minimize the pain /
maximize my learning potential. Is there anything that recent (or not-so-recent) IFR students wish you had done in preparation for training? (specific books to read, home flight simulator) A friend has invited me to tag along in the back seat during his lessons and I have learned a great deal following along while looking at the approach charts... I have found it an excellent way to become familiar with alot of the terminology. Thanks, |
#2
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Is there anything that recent (or not-so-recent) IFR students wish you
had done in preparation for training? (specific books to read, home flight simulator) I'm also in the pre-IFR stage and would like to add the following question to Jonathon's. Is there anything in particular to look for in an instrument instructor (in addition to the criteria used when finding a private pilot instructor)? Thanks, - Ray |
#3
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Get an instructor that isn't afraid to get you into the clag... Seems
like I have been reading about some CFII's that don't want to get the students up into the clouds... Why I don't know... Other that that it is nice to have your 50 hours of x-country time in before starting... Not required but it is something that you can do ahead of time... Jon Kraus PP-ASEL-IA '79 Mooney 201 4443H Ray wrote: Is there anything that recent (or not-so-recent) IFR students wish you had done in preparation for training? (specific books to read, home flight simulator) I'm also in the pre-IFR stage and would like to add the following question to Jonathon's. Is there anything in particular to look for in an instrument instructor (in addition to the criteria used when finding a private pilot instructor)? Thanks, - Ray |
#4
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Get the King's video course and watch it ALL the way through at least
three times (yes, three)... If you actually do that and work all the problems in the book, you will be prepared for both your written and the oral - there is a reason they stay in business decade after decade, and that is results... A good instructor is the next requirement, and really hard to find... Like looking for a girlfriend, you are gonna have to keep trying until you find the right one... Do not start out teaching yourself on a simulator (a dunce for a student and a flaming incompetent for an instructor is not a recipe for success) as all you will do is ingrain a pile of really bad habits that are nearly impossible to break once formed... Once you have an instructor have him/her set the protocol for using the simulator... Oh ya, and have fun... Denny - who is looking for a break in his schedule to drag his carcass off for the annual IFR refresher... Ohhh, so I have an engine fire.. Lessee, where's the check list.. Hmmm, why is that red overvoltage light on.. Gee, the gyros have rolled over And ATC says to remain clear of the bravo and expect further instructions by 0378 Z Golly why's that whistling sound getting louder.. And why is the heading gyro going around so fast |
#5
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Jonathan Sorger wrote:
I will be starting IFR training soon and would like to minimize the pain / maximize my learning potential. Is there anything that recent (or not-so-recent) IFR students wish you had done in preparation for training? (specific books to read, home flight simulator) I finished my IFR rating in the minimum time. Here's some of the things that I think really helped: 1) I already had almost 300 hours VFR, and had been flying the same airplane for over a year so I was familiar with it. 2) I read a couple of IFR books thoroughly (The Art of Instrument Flying, Rod Machado's Instrument Flying Handbook) and took the written test before starting my flight training. I later picked up Robert Gardner's Complete Advanced Pilot book, which is very good, but I still like the Art of Instrument Flying the best (sorry Bob). I used the Gleim book to study for the written - it's good for passing the test but not much else. 3) I spent 2 or 3 VFR flights practicing precision flight maneuvers - a pattern for these was listed in the AoIF book, including 500 fpm climbs and descents with and without turns, VOR tracking maneuvers etc. On your VFR flights practice VOR tracking, flying to IFR standards, and FLIGHT FOLLOWING to become familiar with ATC communications. 4) I spent the maximum allowable time in a PCATD flight simulator with instructor at the airport, and also practiced a little on Microsoft Flight Simulator at home - use MSFS to focus on your procedural skills more so than the actual flying skills, it's also helpful for partial panel and other emergency simulations. Good luck! -- Allen Johnson |
#6
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Jon Kraus wrote
Get an instructor that isn't afraid to get you into the clag... Seems like I have been reading about some CFII's that don't want to get the students up into the clouds... Why I don't know... I'll tell you why Jon....As a 20,000+ hour former navy and retired airline pilot who served as an instrument instructor in both services, and has been an FAA authorized instrument instructor for 35 years... I'm in charge of the training session...not ATC. I try my best to maximize my student's lesson time as opposed to following ATC's directions to keep me clear of other traffic. By using an enroute VOR out in the sticks completely away from an airport and under VFR, I can accomplish 2-3 times the number of holds and approaches in a given period than I can under IFR control. I want to be able to allow the student learn from his mistakes without incurring the wrath of ATC and endangering other aircraft. In the airline industry, we learned very early on that you did not have to set foot in a B-747 in order to learn how to fly one, the simulator is a much better training tool. The same holds true for instrument training...the simulator is best followed by simulated instrument in the aircraft. Bob Moore ATP B-727 B-707 Flight Instructor, Airplanes/Instrument PanAm (retired) |
#7
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Bob Moore wrote:
I'll tell you why Jon....As a 20,000+ hour former navy and retired airline pilot who served as an instrument instructor in both services, and has been an FAA authorized instrument instructor for 35 years... I'm in charge of the training session...not ATC. snip Bob, with all due respect to your very impressive background (seriously), I wanted to ask you to comment on something you didn't mention at all: How flying in actual conditions differs from flying under a hood to a new instrument student. As a March '03 instrument rated pilot, I had the advantage of training in a lot of actual instrument conditions. ATC at out class C approach facility (Syracuse, NY) was *very* accommodating to my instructor's requests while I practiced numerous holds, DME arcs, and published approaches. Granted I never created a separation issue for ATC, so I suppose my take on this might be skewed. The point I wanted to make was that to me there was a big mental and physiological difference between flying under the hood and flying in actual conditions, thanks to how the "actual" clouds and precipitation tricked my direct and peripheral vision. Not *once* under the hood did I get spatially disoriented, most likely because no matter how good the hood was at blocking the view, there was always some type of peripheral clue that aided my spatial orientation. The first few times in actual, though, I experienced a low-to-moderate case of the leans. Those experiences and how I responded to them really helped my confidence in actual from that point forward. I can certainly appreciate the flexibility you as an instructor have when you are VFR. But reading this and the IFR group over the last few years I have seen more than a few threads where pilots who received their instrument rating with little to no actual time immediately need to employ a CFII to take them into the clouds. IMO this seems like a failing of their instrument training. From my very small corner of the world, I believe instrument students would benefit tremendously from several hours of actual time, despite the fact that the instructor doesn't have *as much* flexibility. -- Peter ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#8
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Bob Moore wrote:
In the airline industry, we learned very early on that you did not have to set foot in a B-747 in order to learn how to fly one, the simulator is a much better training tool. The same holds true for instrument training...the simulator is best followed by simulated instrument in the aircraft. Oh, one other comment: IMO your comparison of a 747 simulator training to hood time is apples to oranges. I have only been in a multi-million dollar simulator once, and I can say that I have no problem believing you that a pilot could fly the simulator for 100% of his/her training and transition to a real 747 with no problem. Those simulators are incredible. IMO, a $25 dollar hood does a mediocre job of replicating actual conditions. -- Peter ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#9
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"Jon Kraus" wrote in message ... Get an instructor that isn't afraid to get you into the clag... Seems like I have been reading about some CFII's that don't want to get the students up into the clouds... Why I don't know... Other that that it is nice to have your 50 hours of x-country time in before starting... Not required but it is something that you can do ahead of time... Jon Kraus PP-ASEL-IA '79 Mooney 201 4443H I am not sure that I would want to go flying with an instrument student with only one set of instruments, certainly not on a regular basis. It makes more sense just to train under the hood at night when there are no visual cues. Mike MU-2 |
#10
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Bob Moore wrote:
I'll tell you why Jon....As a 20,000+ hour former navy and retired airline pilot who served as an instrument instructor in both services, and has been an FAA authorized instrument instructor for 35 years... I'm in charge of the training session...not ATC. I try my best to maximize my student's lesson time as opposed to following ATC's directions to keep me clear of other traffic. Translation - operating in actual under ATC control means you simply can't do one-size-fits-all training. You have to be flexible, think on your feet, work with ATC (rather than insisting that you are in charge), and figure out how to maximize training value in a constrained environment (meaning under ATC control). That's much harder than doing it in the unconstrained environment (VFR in the sticks), and you simply can't fully plan it. In other words - effectively instructing in actual is MUCH harder than doing it under the hood, even if you don't consider the additional degree of difficulty of needing to maintain your own scan while teaching. The whole concept of preparing a syllabus and sticking to it rigidly (which is the military and airline way) goes out the window. To effectively utilize actual time, you wind up having a different syllabus for each student. Of course this means you must also have solid experience in the system, become pretty good at predicting what is likely to happen, and effectively brief your student on what to expect. Instruction in IMC requires a much longer and more thorough ground briefing so the student is prepared for what is coming. Also, no matter what you do, and no matter how good you are, the fact remains that you will need more total aircraft hours training in actual than you will if you do it all under the hood in the sticks. It won't be 2-3 times as much (that would take a pretty rigid instructor who can't go with the flow) but it will be more. No matter how you slice it, if you leave instruction in actual out of the curriculum, you can get the student to the checkride in fewer hours while demanding less from both the instructor and the student. There's only one problem. You're not getting an instrument rating to fly around under the hood, are you? Operating in actual teaches you things that you're simply not going to learn in a simulator or under the hood. Peter has already made some valid points in that area, and I won't repeat them. But there are others. Operating in actual teaches you that it's not ceiling that's really crucial on an approach, it's visibility (which, unlike ceiling, can't be effectively simulated). It teaches you where the pitfalls are in a low-vis circling approach - something you will NEVER learn flying under the hood in CAVU. It teaches you to handle ATC when it's REALLY busy - filing in CAVU won't. It teaches you to anticipate what's coming (those ground briefing sessions are NOT wasted time) and how to be prepared for it. It teaches you to deal with the twin hazards usually associated with IMC - T-storms and ice. Really the list is too long to cover everything. There is absolutely no validity to the idea that you can consistently do a complete and valid instrument course without exposure to actual IMC and turn out a pilot who can consistently self-dispatch and operate in conditions below VFR minimums with a reasonable margin of safety. Michael |
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