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#51
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On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:59:31 -0500, "Mike Yared"
wrote: Cluster bombs called 'war crime' Britain's use of cluster bombs in Iraq, similar to the ones used by the United States military, is a "war crime" and should be referred to the International Criminal Court (ICC) for prosecution, academics, lawyers and human rights activists in London said earlier this week. at http://www.washtimes.com/world/20040...3737-4342r.htm Why did the lawyers not sue Saddam Hussein first? Or the late Soviet leaders for the the Soviet Union's 1956 Invasion of Hungary? the 1968 Invasion of Czechoslovakia; and the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan? Will the late Yuri Andropov and Leonid Brezhnev be labeled as war criminals in historical terms? Well, you should check out the full article-- this is a group of people, who seem to have little credibility-- even Human Rights watch isn't in their corner. Honestly, with a very few exceptonis (Chemical and Biological, and strategic nukes), as I understand it, the manner of hte use of the weapon is what defines whether or not it is a warcrime. Using a cluster bomb on a infantry column is fine. Using one one a group of peacefully demonstrating civilians is a crime. They also rather miss the point that while yes, a Cluster bomb will kill over a larger area, in some cases it can actually be less dangerous to civilians than an ordinary bomb-- if you have a group of people in a building that is in the AOE of a cluster bomb most damage will be restricted to the facade and outer doors-- if you accidently or on purpose drop a 500/1000lb bomb next to it, damage is likely to reach...considerably further inside. |
#52
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"John Mullen" wrote in message ... Ragnar wrote: "Mike Yared" wrote in message ... Why did the lawyers not sue Saddam Hussein first? Or the late Soviet leaders for the the Soviet Union's 1956 Invasion of Hungary? the 1968 Invasion of Czechoslovakia; and the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan? Will the late Yuri Andropov and Leonid Brezhnev be labeled as war criminals in historical terms? The lefties involved in these cases don't sue guys like Stalin because they know what he would do to them. Its easier and more profitable to whine about the USA because they know they can get away with it. Stalin is dead. Thank you Captain Obvious. I'm sure other readers caught the point without being an ass. |
#53
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Where did the US "carpet bomb" in Vietnam? Tactical strikes in the South were always FAC control. Likely he's referring to Arc Light. all the best -- Dan Ford email: see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com |
#54
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I've seen the term "carpet bombing" bandied about for years. I've never seen or heard a definition. Is there one? A generally accepted one? I think of it as area bombing. The ultimate example would be the March 10, 1945, fire bombing of Tokyo. Though that was incendiary rather than high explosive, it was planned to cover whole square miles of a city. Bombing the rain forest, as the B-52s did in Vietnam, is a bit of a stretch but would probably qualify since the intention wasn't to hit any specific thing on the ground, but to make areas of the ground uninhabitable. all the best -- Dan Ford email: see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com |
#55
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How many soldiers did you kill with the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? I didn't kill any, being but a slip of a boy at the time, but the likelihood at Hiroshima is that 20,000 soldiers and Korean forced laborers were killed. At a guess, then, nearly a division's worth was destroyed, not a bad day's work, especially considering that Hiroshima was the headquarters of Second General Army (the equivalent of a "command" in today's U.S. military). Soldiers and Koreans were the two categories of people not on the rice ration, so it is not easy to account for them, and the first estimates of deaths simply omitted them. See www.warbirdforum.com/hirodead.htm all the best -- Dan Ford email: see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com |
#56
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Rubbish. Soldiers have a duty to "die for their country". Innocent civilians don't. Somehow I doubt that anyone who could write these words ever served in the military, in war or peace. When I carried a rifle for the U.S. Army, I was an innocent as any civilian--more innocent than many. What I hear speaking is someone who knows that he never was and never will be sent in harm's way. all the best -- Dan Ford email: see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com |
#57
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By that criteria, I'll still say little or no "carpet bombing" in SEA.
Using your definition I'd agre as well. My definition didn't address discriminate versus indiscriminate since I don't believe the USAF or its predecessor the USAAF ever bombed indiscriminately. "Saturation bombing" was necessary to achieve the desired .pd on the designated target due to the poor bombing accuracy. No USAAF crew was ever sent out during WW II and told to; "just drop your weapons where ever". a B-52 bomb string covers some ground, but Arc Light missions were specific targets and virtually always jungle areas, not cities or villages. However, they were striking general areas. The target may have been specific, but it was specific in regards to general area. Does that make sense? Did I type that correctly? BUFDRVR "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips everyone on Bear Creek" |
#58
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Yes, the use of nuclear weapons is a war crime.
It wasn't at the time, which is what counts. Ex post facto, and all that. Nuclear weapons, now (26 JAN 04) *are not* out lawed by Geneva or any other Laws of Armed Conflict. Unlike their more abundant counterparts like Chemical Weapons and Biological Weapons, Nuclear weapons *are* legal. BUFDRVR "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips everyone on Bear Creek" |
#59
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Does one of the last major IJ Naval bases, and an army division with headquarters count? The role of Second General Army at Hiroshima is often misunderstood. It was created when the likelihood of invasion loomed. First General Army was responsible for most of Honshu (the large island, including Tokyo and the Kanto Plain) and the northern islands. Second General Army was responsible for southern Honshu (thus its location at Hiroshima) and the southern islands, notably Kyushu, where the Americans planned and the Japanese expected the invasion to land. This was not merely a division headquarters, nor even the hq of an area army or a corps. It was responsible for millions of men, including the upwards of 600,000 who would meet the Americans on the beaches of Kyushu. all the best -- Dan Ford email: see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com |
#60
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I didn't say anything is better than nuclear. I said that bombing a civilian target with a nuke and killing thousands of civilians is a war crime. Do you understand now? I don't, no. Is killing thousands of civilians with incendiaries or high explosives not a war crime? What about killing thousands of civilians with the bayonet and machine-gun? What about killing thousands of civilians by starving them to death? 55 million people died in World War II. By your definition, the only deaths not accountable as war crimes was the soldiers (poor bloody soldiers) and those who died in retail numbers (i.e. in batches of less than multi-thousands). all the best -- Dan Ford email: see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com |
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