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ASW27 Trasponder Antenna Installation Inside Fuselage.



 
 
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  #41  
Old January 1st 18, 09:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Scott Williams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 198
Default ASW27 Trasponder Antenna Installation Inside Fuselage.

On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 10:45:56 PM UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 6:25:04 PM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 8:02:08 PM UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Just leave it alone and go fly.


Fundamentally I agree with you, but if my new expensive transponder installation fails recert in the future, I would have wished to correct it being only a couple of months old. rather than close to the end of the warrantee period. And I must admit to being pretty obsessive compulsive on subjects like this.
thanks,
Scott

As an admitted inexperienced guy about transponders, this is why I asked for input. I value your comments, and if the tech had not been so wishy washy and just said "It's fine, let me sign it off" I would not have been concerned.

Thanks again,
Scott.
C'mon you are wasting time, you didn't even know what the guy was talking about but that did not stop you trying to talk to the manufacturer... . He's signed off on the install. These tests are very imprecise (third time I've said that), as you should have taken away from the technician's comments and very likely don't show anything worth worrying about. If you don't trust the avionics tech who signed off on it then go elsewhere. I've already told you what the test to ask for... but given how busy shops are with ADS-B installs I expect many of them would have low tolerance for things that look like they might be wasting time, or maybe they'll be willing to charge you well for farting around with somebody else's transponder install. You are wasting time...


  #42  
Old January 1st 18, 09:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,403
Default ASW27 Trasponder Antenna Installation Inside Fuselage.

On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 12:05:38 AM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 10:45:56 PM UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 6:25:04 PM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 8:02:08 PM UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Just leave it alone and go fly.

Fundamentally I agree with you, but if my new expensive transponder installation fails recert in the future, I would have wished to correct it being only a couple of months old. rather than close to the end of the warrantee period. And I must admit to being pretty obsessive compulsive on subjects like this.
thanks,
Scott

As an admitted inexperienced guy about transponders, this is why I asked for input. I value your comments, and if the tech had not been so wishy washy and just said "It's fine, let me sign it off" I would not have been concerned.

Thanks again,
Scott.
C'mon you are wasting time, you didn't even know what the guy was talking about but that did not stop you trying to talk to the manufacturer... . He's signed off on the install. These tests are very imprecise (third time I've said that), as you should have taken away from the technician's comments and very likely don't show anything worth worrying about. If you don't trust the avionics tech who signed off on it then go elsewhere. I've already told you what the test to ask for... but given how busy shops are with ADS-B installs I expect many of them would have low tolerance for things that look like they might be wasting time, or maybe they'll be willing to charge you well for farting around with somebody else's transponder install. You are wasting time...


Scott

Thanks for installing a transponder, I expect it will be trouble free, modern solid state transponders like your TT22 are pretty damn reliable.

One thing to mention is since you have a Trig Transponder you can add ADS-B Out, specifically the simpler to adopt TABS version, by adding a ~$350 TN72 GPS Source. Maybe you've already done that, but if not that should be a simple add-on install once you have a TT22 or TT21 installed. How useful that add-on is to you depends on what you are doing, but it will make your glider visible to the increasing number of ADS-B In systems used in GA, visible at longer range (that FLARM) to PowerFLARM, etc.

  #43  
Old January 1st 18, 10:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Scott Williams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 198
Default ASW27 Trasponder Antenna Installation Inside Fuselage.

On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 2:55:43 PM UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 12:05:38 AM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 10:45:56 PM UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 6:25:04 PM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 8:02:08 PM UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Just leave it alone and go fly.

Fundamentally I agree with you, but if my new expensive transponder installation fails recert in the future, I would have wished to correct it being only a couple of months old. rather than close to the end of the warrantee period. And I must admit to being pretty obsessive compulsive on subjects like this.
thanks,
Scott
As an admitted inexperienced guy about transponders, this is why I asked for input. I value your comments, and if the tech had not been so wishy washy and just said "It's fine, let me sign it off" I would not have been concerned.

Thanks again,
Scott.
C'mon you are wasting time, you didn't even know what the guy was talking about but that did not stop you trying to talk to the manufacturer... .. He's signed off on the install. These tests are very imprecise (third time I've said that), as you should have taken away from the technician's comments and very likely don't show anything worth worrying about. If you don't trust the avionics tech who signed off on it then go elsewhere. I've already told you what the test to ask for... but given how busy shops are with ADS-B installs I expect many of them would have low tolerance for things that look like they might be wasting time, or maybe they'll be willing to charge you well for farting around with somebody else's transponder install. You are wasting time...


Scott

Thanks for installing a transponder, I expect it will be trouble free, modern solid state transponders like your TT22 are pretty damn reliable.

One thing to mention is since you have a Trig Transponder you can add ADS-B Out, specifically the simpler to adopt TABS version, by adding a ~$350 TN72 GPS Source. Maybe you've already done that, but if not that should be a simple add-on install once you have a TT22 or TT21 installed. How useful that add-on is to you depends on what you are doing, but it will make your glider visible to the increasing number of ADS-B In systems used in GA, visible at longer range (that FLARM) to PowerFLARM, etc.


That capability is why I chose the trig tt22, I plan on adding that functionality in the future, But I'm going to wait a little bit for the surge to subside. also I would like to be less ignorant of the ads-b system.
As a transponder novice, the complexities are intimidating and I usually fly standard type certificated gliders, including my cirrus, possibly complicating my selection of equipment.

Thanks,
Scott
  #44  
Old January 7th 18, 04:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,939
Default ASW27 Trasponder Antenna Installation Inside Fuselage.

Scott Williams wrote on 12/31/2017 5:22 PM:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 7:12:51 PM UTC-6, Scott Williams wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 6:13:39 PM UTC-6, Steve Koerner wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 3:13:42 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
If it's not too much trouble, try a coax cable length of 21 11/16 inches
which would be 2 wavelengths at 1090 MHz (assuming my arithmetic is
correct). You may have reflected power in your coax which will reduce
performance.

Dan: I'm not jumping into the real technical matters here but its pretty obvious that you're neglecting the fact that waves travel slower in coax.


Hey Dan,
I think you may be correct about Too short,
I googled this and there is a couple of opinions that seem to originate
with Garmin, I doubt very many transponders are installed with coax runs
less than 15 inches, maybe this particular problem is rare?
I'm using rg400, and may try a longer coax run.
Thanks,
Scott.


In addition,
So does anyone willing to suggest a coax length if not 21 11/16 inches?
maybe tree foot? is there a non critical length range?
Scott.


The coax is a transmission line, and good quality, undamaged coax does not produce
reflections. If the antenna is not properly constructed, it will produce
reflections, and the coax will carry them back to the transmitter (transponder in
this case).

So, with a good antenna and good coax, variations in length will make no
difference. Go fly, as Darryl says.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf
  #45  
Old January 7th 18, 05:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default ASW27 Trasponder Antenna Installation Inside Fuselage.

EE school was a very long time ago.Â* Yes, a coax is a transmission line
and, properly terminated, will not produce reflections.Â* If you're
cutting your own line to length, make sure you make a good connection
with the connector on the end.Â* I always preferred the screw together
BNC connectors.Â* The crimp on connectors take a bit of practice to get
right.

On 1/6/2018 8:32 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Scott Williams wrote on 12/31/2017 5:22 PM:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 7:12:51 PM UTC-6, Scott Williams wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 6:13:39 PM UTC-6, Steve Koerner wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 3:13:42 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
If it's not too much trouble, try a coax cable length of 21 11/16
inches
which would be 2 wavelengths at 1090 MHz (assuming my arithmetic is
correct).Â* You may have reflected power in your coax which will
reduce
performance.

Dan: I'm not jumping into the real technical matters here but its
pretty obvious that you're neglecting the fact that waves travel
slower in coax.

Hey Dan,
I think you may be correct about Too short,
I googled this and there is a couple of opinions that seem to originate
with Garmin, I doubt very many transponders are installed with coax
runs
less than 15 inches, maybe this particular problem is rare?
I'm using rg400, and may try a longer coax run.
Thanks,
Scott.


In addition,
So does anyone willing to suggest a coax length if not 21 11/16 inches?
maybe tree foot? is there a non critical length range?
Scott.


The coax is a transmission line, and good quality, undamaged coax does
not produce reflections. If the antenna is not properly constructed,
it will produce reflections, and the coax will carry them back to the
transmitter (transponder in this case).

So, with a good antenna and good coax, variations in length will make
no difference. Go fly, as Darryl says.


--
Dan, 5J
  #46  
Old January 8th 18, 04:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Scott Williams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 198
Default ASW27 Trasponder Antenna Installation Inside Fuselage.

On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 10:31:02 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
EE school was a very long time ago.Â* Yes, a coax is a transmission line
and, properly terminated, will not produce reflections.Â* If you're
cutting your own line to length, make sure you make a good connection
with the connector on the end.Â* I always preferred the screw together
BNC connectors.Â* The crimp on connectors take a bit of practice to get
right.

On 1/6/2018 8:32 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Scott Williams wrote on 12/31/2017 5:22 PM:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 7:12:51 PM UTC-6, Scott Williams wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 6:13:39 PM UTC-6, Steve Koerner wrote:
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 3:13:42 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
If it's not too much trouble, try a coax cable length of 21 11/16
inches
which would be 2 wavelengths at 1090 MHz (assuming my arithmetic is
correct).Â* You may have reflected power in your coax which will
reduce
performance.

Dan: I'm not jumping into the real technical matters here but its
pretty obvious that you're neglecting the fact that waves travel
slower in coax.

Hey Dan,
I think you may be correct about Too short,
I googled this and there is a couple of opinions that seem to originate
with Garmin, I doubt very many transponders are installed with coax
runs
less than 15 inches, maybe this particular problem is rare?
I'm using rg400, and may try a longer coax run.
Thanks,
Scott.

In addition,
So does anyone willing to suggest a coax length if not 21 11/16 inches?
maybe tree foot? is there a non critical length range?
Scott.


The coax is a transmission line, and good quality, undamaged coax does
not produce reflections. If the antenna is not properly constructed,
it will produce reflections, and the coax will carry them back to the
transmitter (transponder in this case).

So, with a good antenna and good coax, variations in length will make
no difference. Go fly, as Darryl says.


--
Dan, 5J


Well,
It's easy enough to have a longer coax on hand for a recheck of the trig TT22,
also a 'direct hookup' request if the sensitivity is still low, also, the antenna is a comant CL105 with a copper ground plane per schempp-hirth drawing.
Continuity and resistive tests of the coax and harness were conducted at the time of installation, Rg400 by the way.
I must admit to being much more confident in the system because of all your input!
I could not have spent these cold winter moments any better, Thanks everyone,
And please feel free to add anything,

Much appreciated,
Scott, N8915
 




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