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#51
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FAR 91.130 and the Definite Article
Sorry -- a similar discussion is also occuring on a Piper owners' forum and JKG is there, too, so I something forget who said what to whom where!!! |
#52
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FAR 91.130 and the Definite Article
Because of this:
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/AIM/Chap4/aim0401.html#4-1-14 Once you're with them they don't expect you to "just leave". They've forgotten about you. If they knew you were still with them they'd have either terminated radar services or transferred communications before you were so far inside approach control airspace. I've switched frequencies away from Chicago Center, when I could no longer receive them (due to low altitudes) -- and they responded by calling the airport manager at home, and having the poor schmuck go out to the airport we landed at, looking for us. They really don't like to have pilots leave their freq without permission. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#53
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FAR 91.130 and the Definite Article
On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 16:52:48 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote: "Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message .. . My recollection, which may be incorrect, is that this was a change from the original wording specifically designed to ensure that the entering pilot would be talking with the ATC facility actually controlling the Class C airspace. In the original proposal establishing CCA, I don't believe that requirement was present -- only that the pilot be talking with ATC. Your recollection is correct. This was addressed in responses to comments received when ARSA/Class C airspace was in the test period. The FAA addressed it as follows: "Specifically, aircraft arriving at any airport in an ARSA, and overflying aircraft, prior to entering the ARSA must: (1) Establish two-way radio communications with the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the area; and, (2) while in the ARSA, maintain two-way radio communication with that ATC facility." But when it came time to implement ARSAs nationwide and incorporate them in the FARs they didn't include that nice, clear language. The original regulation was: § 91.88 Airport Radar Service Areas. (c) Arrivals and Overflights. No person may operate an aircraft in an airport radar service area unless two-way radio communication is established with ATC prior to entering the area and is thereafter maintained with ATC while within that area. This language was corrected, I believe during airspace reclassification back in 1993, to make it clear that contact with any ATC facility did not permit entry into ARSA/Class C airspace, it had to be with the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the area. Thanks for confirming my memory of how that unfolded. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#54
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FAR 91.130 and the Definite Article
Yes.
"B a r r y" wrote in message et... Marco Leon wrote: Does ATC even *do* VFR hand-offs to a Class D tower from flight following? |
#55
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FAR 91.130 and the Definite Article
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:MBbHf.767954$_o.645510@attbi_s71... I've switched frequencies away from Chicago Center, when I could no longer receive them (due to low altitudes) -- and they responded by calling the airport manager at home, and having the poor schmuck go out to the airport we landed at, looking for us. They really don't like to have pilots leave their freq without permission. All you know for certain is that just one doesn't like it. |
#56
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FAR 91.130 and the Definite Article
I've switched frequencies away from Chicago Center, when I could no
longer receive them (due to low altitudes) -- and they responded by calling the airport manager at home, and having the poor schmuck go out to the airport we landed at, looking for us. They really don't like to have pilots leave their freq without permission. All you know for certain is that just one doesn't like it. You really think that one controller in Chicago Center had the power and authority to take it upon himself to call the airport manager at home and drag his sorry heinie down to the airport, just because he was unhappy that I lost radio contact with him? The guy tracked me in to land at Rantoul, so he *knew* I was okay, which eliminates the "he was concerned for my well-being" angle. So you think this was just one guy with bean up his butt? -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#57
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FAR 91.130 and the Definite Article
Jay Honeck wrote: You really think that one controller in Chicago Center had the power and authority to take it upon himself to call the airport manager at home and drag his sorry heinie down to the airport, just because he was unhappy that I lost radio contact with him? The guy tracked me in to land at Rantoul, so he *knew* I was okay, which eliminates the "he was concerned for my well-being" angle. So you think this was just one guy with bean up his butt? Of course not. There were several at the Center involved in this chain of events. |
#58
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FAR 91.130 and the Definite Article
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:1lmHf.549388$084.128499@attbi_s22... You really think that one controller in Chicago Center had the power and authority to take it upon himself to call the airport manager at home and drag his sorry heinie down to the airport, just because he was unhappy that I lost radio contact with him? Sure. In Aurora it takes only one person to dial a telephone number. How many are needed in Iowa City? The guy tracked me in to land at Rantoul, so he *knew* I was okay, which eliminates the "he was concerned for my well-being" angle. So you think this was just one guy with bean up his butt? How did he *know* you were okay? As I explained to you at that time, ATC is required to initiate a search when there is an unexpected loss of radar contact and radio communications with any IFR or VFR aircraft. How do you know that was not what was being done? |
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