A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Instrument Flight Rules
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Why is ADF required on ILS approach?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 9th 03, 11:28 AM
Rich Raine
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why is ADF required on ILS approach?

Wait! He can use a GPS in place of the ADF on that approach. Isn't that
correct?

Rich Raine
www.eraine.com


"Brien K. Meehan" wrote in message
...
"Gig Giacona" wrote in message
...
And the ILS plate is marked ADF required? Why is that?


... because you need to know where the LOM/IAF called LADOS is.

It's an IAF, so there's no previous fix from which you can start timing to
find LADOS.

DME is not required, so you can't assume you can use it to find LADOS -

yes,
even though it's clearly marked 5.2NM on the plate.

If you want to get into ELD without an ADF, you'll have to use one of the
other 3 approaches. Those aren't terrible options.




  #2  
Old July 9th 03, 11:40 AM
Thomas Borchert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Gig,

the initial approach fix (IAF) is defined by the NDB. how would you
find this point without an ADF? You'd get around that with radar
vectors, but you couldn't fly the full procedure without the NDB. And
the missed approach is a hold on the NDB. Same problem.

BUT: An approach certified GPS with the NDB in it's database can
replace for the ADF.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #3  
Old July 9th 03, 12:23 PM
jay somerset
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:18:55 -0500, "Gig Giacona"
wrote:

I've not been flying in a while and don't have an IR. But I plan to get one
as soon after I finish building my plane.

I was looking at this approach plate for my home field
http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...l/ELD_ir22.pdf

or http://tinyurl.com/gcjc


And the ILS plate is marked ADF required? Why is that?


PPSEL R-H
My Zodiac 601XL
www.peoamerica.net/N601WR


Two reasons -- the (one and only) IAF is defined by the LOM, and that
is also the missed approach fix. An ILS approach still has the missed
approach as a integral segment.
  #4  
Old July 9th 03, 01:06 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Brien K. Meehan" wrote in message
...

It's an IAF, so there's no previous fix from which you can start timing to
find LADOS.

DME is not required, so you can't assume you can use it to find LADOS -

yes,
even though it's clearly marked 5.2NM on the plate.

If you want to get into ELD without an ADF, you'll have to use one of the
other 3 approaches. Those aren't terrible options.


You're ignoring the feeder route from ELD to LADOS.


  #5  
Old July 9th 03, 01:07 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...

or an approach certified GPS with LADOS as a waypoint, right?


The GPS does not need approach certification.


  #6  
Old July 9th 03, 01:18 PM
Sydney Hoeltzli
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Thomas Borchert wrote:
Wait! He can use a GPS in place of the ADF on that approach. Isn't that
correct?


I think so. But: Does the GPS need to be certified? If so (and I think so),
does it need to be approach certified or is enroute sufficient?


Certified, enroute/terminal suffices

Sydney


  #7  
Old July 9th 03, 01:46 PM
John Clonts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Brien K. Meehan wrote in message
...
"Gig Giacona" wrote in message
...
And the ILS plate is marked ADF required? Why is that?


... because you need to know where the LOM/IAF called LADOS is.

It's an IAF, so there's no previous fix from which you can start timing to
find LADOS.

DME is not required, so you can't assume you can use it to find LADOS -

yes,
even though it's clearly marked 5.2NM on the plate.


6.5 DME


  #8  
Old July 9th 03, 02:40 PM
Gig Giacona
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Let's see if I have this straight and please forgive any ignorance on my
part.

When I got my PP-SEL in ELD '79-'80 there was no ILS or NDB approach at ELD
just VOR. All the pilots bitched including the Lear and Citation pilots and
their bosses and ELD gets an ILS. But it gets put in requireing ADF that
even then was on the way out.

This is the silliest thing I have ever heard of.


"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Gig,

the initial approach fix (IAF) is defined by the NDB. how would you
find this point without an ADF? You'd get around that with radar
vectors, but you couldn't fly the full procedure without the NDB. And
the missed approach is a hold on the NDB. Same problem.

BUT: An approach certified GPS with the NDB in it's database can
replace for the ADF.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)



  #9  
Old July 9th 03, 02:42 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dave Butler" wrote in message
...

Oh, right, sorry. I lost sight of the original premise, an ILS with ADF
REQUIRED. So what I should have said was:

"I think the alternate missed approach instructions still don't relieve

the
pilot of the requirement for carrying an ADF as explicitly stated on the
approach chart."


You're viewing the note "ADF REQUIRED" as having legal authority. I view it
as just a reminder that ADF is needed to fly the full approach, the missed
approach segment in this case. This isn't the first time this matter has
been discussed in this forum. As I recall from previous discussions, nobody
was able to present any definitive documentation in support of either view.
But logic tends to support the view that these notes are just reminders to
the pilot. Take a look at most LOC BC approaches and you'll find a similar
note that says "BACK COURSE". Is that a legal requirement that a back
course receiver must be aboard to fly the approach, or is it just a reminder
of reverse sensing?


  #10  
Old July 9th 03, 06:38 PM
Stan Prevost
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Gig Giacona" wrote in message
...
Let's see if I have this straight and please forgive any ignorance on my
part.

When I got my PP-SEL in ELD '79-'80 there was no ILS or NDB approach at

ELD
just VOR. All the pilots bitched including the Lear and Citation pilots

and
their bosses and ELD gets an ILS. But it gets put in requireing ADF that
even then was on the way out.

This is the silliest thing I have ever heard of.



New NDBs are still being commissioned in the US.

Stan



 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AOPA Stall/Spin Study -- Stowell's Review (8,000 words) Rich Stowell Aerobatics 28 January 2nd 09 03:26 PM
The perfect approach Capt.Doug Home Built 25 December 3rd 04 04:37 AM
Which aircraft certification is required for R&D? Netgeek Home Built 5 November 23rd 04 06:59 AM
LSA Approach speeds Ace Pilot Home Built 0 February 3rd 04 06:38 PM
Download approach charts Ron Natalie Home Built 0 July 9th 03 08:29 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.