IFR Simulators - non-PCATD

I'm getting ready to buy a new PC and want to set it up for a little IFR simulation work. Not looking for a PCATD or anything. I'm thinking the latest version of MS Flt Sim and the appropriate control peripherals. I'm not a gamer - really just looking for a little procedure training.

Looking for HW & SW suggestions.

Anyone remember when MS FS came on one 360k bootable diskette? Jeez!

Heck, I remember when there was a program for the Commodore 64! GRIN

Anyway, I am using OnTop with a CH Products Fllight Sim Yoke with 3
assignable levers (thorttle, prop pitch, mixture... or whatever) with a
plethora of hat, toggle, buttons,,, etc. I like it just fine. I also have
the CH products rudder pedals,but I don't find them that useful practicing
my IFR stuff. My two cents....

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com
"Maule Driver" wrote in message
.com...
I'm getting ready to buy a new PC and want to set it up for a little IFR
simulation work. Not looking for a PCATD or anything. I'm thinking the
latest version of MS Flt Sim and the appropriate control peripherals. I'm
not a gamer - really just looking for a little procedure training.

Looking for HW & SW suggestions.

Anyone remember when MS FS came on one 360k bootable diskette? Jeez!

I must be tired. I meant: "crosswind landings", not "crossing landings"...

"Marty Ross" wrote in message
t...
I've found the rudders useful for making those small heading corrections
on
ILS final.

Also, I used the rudders a lot when practicing for heavy crossing landings
(preparation for my Hawaii trip).

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
y.com...
Heck, I remember when there was a program for the Commodore 64! GRIN

Anyway, I am using OnTop with a CH Products Fllight Sim Yoke with 3
assignable levers (thorttle, prop pitch, mixture... or whatever) with a
plethora of hat, toggle, buttons,,, etc. I like it just fine. I also
have
the CH products rudder pedals,but I don't find them that useful
practicing
my IFR stuff. My two cents....

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com
"Maule Driver" wrote in message
.com...
I'm getting ready to buy a new PC and want to set it up for a little IFR
simulation work. Not looking for a PCATD or anything. I'm thinking the
latest version of MS Flt Sim and the appropriate control peripherals.
I'm
not a gamer - really just looking for a little procedure training.

Looking for HW & SW suggestions.

Anyone remember when MS FS came on one 360k bootable diskette? Jeez!

Marty Ross wrote:

Hardware-wise, I find the CH Products yoke and rudder to be fine for home
use (combined price about $200 if you shop around). The more expensive
yokes are smoother and more precise (for instance, the CH yoke doesn't
always return to the same 'center' position when you let it go), but with a
little silicon grease that I've added for smoothness, the CH is smooth
enough.

If you get inside the CH yoke and remove the return springs the
simulator is *much* easier to fly, since you don't have to mess around
with the cheesy trim wheel so much.

Tim

Cecil E. Chapman wrote:

Anyway, I am using OnTop


Hi Cecil,

What planes does OnTop have, and if you don't mind where
did you buy it and ~cost?

Any comments on the realism of the flight model and what
you feel it does for you vs. "game" sims such as MSFS?

Thanks!
Sydney

So what is a more expensive yoke?

Thanks for the analysis!

"Marty Ross" wrote in message
t...
I have tried Elite, MSFS2002, X-Plane, ProPilot and FlightGear and I end
up
using Elite and MSFS2002 the most.

Hardware-wise, I find the CH Products yoke and rudder to be fine for home
use (combined price about $200 if you shop around). The more expensive
yokes are smoother and more precise (for instance, the CH yoke doesn't
always return to the same 'center' position when you let it go), but with
a
little silicon grease that I've added for smoothness, the CH is smooth
enough. I also have a "Logitech Wingman RumblePad" for when I fly using
my
laptop on the road, though it's more of a toy than a serious joystick.

Of the sims I use, I found Elite to be the best for IFR practice, and
MSFS2002 the best for VFR practice. I got the student package of Elite
6.0,
which gives me a C172R (DME and GPS configurations) for $200 (you can add
on
planes for extra). It's the same software my flight school uses for its
PCATD, but its much cheaper because of Elite's decision to market to
students. I think the current version's 7.0, and they're not calling it
"student version" anymore, just "core software"...

I feel Elite's instruments are much more clearly displayed, and the flight
model is smoother (feels more precise in relation to my inputs), which is
the main reason I like to train on it for flying by instruments.

Recently, I've used Elite for scanning exercises and practice approaches
and
holds, and MSFS2002 extensively to familiarize myself with places I've
never
been but am planning on flying to/around. For example, when I went to
Maui
last month and rented a plane there, I felt very familiar with everything
(geography/airports/navaids/route) because of my practice with MSFS2002 -
"as real as it gets", :-

No more bootable diskette though -- MSFS2002 comes on 3CDs and even on
your
fastest PC you'll feel it working as it comes up... I'll bet MSFS2004 is
even heavier!

"Maule Driver" wrote in message
.com...

I'm getting ready to buy a new PC and want to set it up for a little IFR
simulation work. Not looking for a PCATD or anything. I'm thinking the
latest version of MS Flt Sim and the appropriate control peripherals. I'm
not a gamer - really just looking for a little procedure training.

Looking for HW & SW suggestions.

Anyone remember when MS FS came on one 360k bootable diskette? Jeez!

I bought it on Ebay and paid $70 bucks for it. It isn't the 'latest'
version it is 7.0 NOT 8.0.

Can't really comment of MSFS comparison, because I don't think that I've
used it enough to give it a fair analysis. Rumour is that MSFS 2004 pro
version will have IFR training features... don't know if this is true,,,,,
just what I've heard.

The choice of the planes is limited, but certainly useful:

My version has; Cessna 172P Skyhawk, C-182R Skylane, C-182R Skylane RG,
Piper PA-28-16/Warrior II, Piper PA-28R-201 Arrow IV, Lancair Columbia 300,
Mooney MSE, Beech Bonanza V35B, Beech Baron 58, Beech 1900.

Hope this helps!

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com
"Sydney Hoeltzli" wrote in message
...
Cecil E. Chapman wrote:

Anyway, I am using OnTop


Hi Cecil,

What planes does OnTop have, and if you don't mind where
did you buy it and ~cost?

Any comments on the realism of the flight model and what
you feel it does for you vs. "game" sims such as MSFS?

Thanks!
Sydney

You might consider X-Plane (www.x-plane.com); though it lacks a fair amount
of the polish that MSFS has, it has an incredibly good flight model and for
IFR work, the smoothest flight instrument movements of any PC sim out there,
even on my paltry 600 MHz PIII! No needle stutter whatsoever, and to watch
the CDI needle come off the peg and center in such fluidity is quite
impressive!. X-plane 7 is available now, its C-172 is better than
Microsofts, IMHO.

"Maule Driver" wrote in message
.com...
I'm getting ready to buy a new PC and want to set it up for a little IFR
simulation work. Not looking for a PCATD or anything. I'm thinking the
latest version of MS Flt Sim and the appropriate control peripherals. I'm
not a gamer - really just looking for a little procedure training.

Looking for HW & SW suggestions.

Anyone remember when MS FS came on one 360k bootable diskette? Jeez!

Aloft ) wrote:

the smoothest flight instrument movements of any PC sim out there,
even on my paltry 600 MHz PIII! No needle stutter whatsoever, and to watch
the CDI needle come off the peg and center in such fluidity is quite
impressive!.

Really! Now if only my C172's gauges could be that smooth when flying in
turbulent or very wet air.

--
Peter