Squall torpedo

Whoops there goes another Super Carrier (steering gear & screws) !

http://www.diodon349.com/Kursk-Memor...the_squall.htm

"Spitfiremk9" wrote in message
...
Whoops there goes another Super Carrier (steering gear & screws) !

http://www.diodon349.com/Kursk-Memor...the_squall.htm

Stop being silly

The Skhval is a short range straight runner that does NOT
home in on the steering gear or screws. The Russian
torpedo that IS dangerous in this respect is the large
Type 53-65 passive wake homing torpedo,

Keith

Silly for sure. How that super-fast torpedo would be able to detect a
target? With a radar, perhaps? LOL!!!!

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"Spitfiremk9" wrote in message
...
Whoops there goes another Super Carrier (steering gear & screws) !

http://www.diodon349.com/Kursk-Memor...the_squall.htm

Stop being silly

The Skhval is a short range straight runner that does NOT
home in on the steering gear or screws. The Russian
torpedo that IS dangerous in this respect is the large
Type 53-65 passive wake homing torpedo,

Keith

I doubt the Russians would produce a completely impracticable weapon.
Almost certainly a modest degree of directional control (perhaps turn
rates of 1 degree per second) is possible if only to keep the missile
on course, homing guidence at full speed might be difficult due to
the gas cavity and rocket motor interfering with both passive and
active sonar but that wouldn't prevent the missile being equiped with
an inertial guidence system able to take the missile to within close
range of the target where it either slows down for a 'look' using
conventional passive or active sonar or it detonates a large (possibly
nuclear) warhead. Even a cheap inertial guidence system would have
drift rates of at most 20 meters per minute; given its speed of well
over 300km/h or 5km/minute so an attack on targets 25 km away would
place the missile within 100 meters of the 'enemy carrier' or 'sub'.

Even attacks using WW2 shoot and forget collision course type aiming
with spreads of torpedos would have a high degree of success given the
enormous speed of the missile preventing evasive manouvers.

"Eunometic" wrote in message
m...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"Spitfiremk9" wrote in message
...
Whoops there goes another Super Carrier (steering gear & screws) !

http://www.diodon349.com/Kursk-Memor...the_squall.htm

Stop being silly

The Skhval is a short range straight runner that does NOT
home in on the steering gear or screws. The Russian
torpedo that IS dangerous in this respect is the large
Type 53-65 passive wake homing torpedo,

Keith

I doubt the Russians would produce a completely impracticable weapon.

Its a Hail Mary Weapon intended to be fired at a vessel that has
a lock on you and is about to kill you. At best it might actually hit
the enemy but there's a good chance it'll evade and in doing so
break the lock.


Almost certainly a modest degree of directional control (perhaps turn
rates of 1 degree per second) is possible if only to keep the missile
on course, homing guidence at full speed might be difficult due to
the gas cavity and rocket motor interfering with both passive and
active sonar but that wouldn't prevent the missile being equiped with
an inertial guidence system able to take the missile to within close
range of the target where it either slows down for a 'look' using
conventional passive or active sonar or it detonates a large (possibly
nuclear) warhead. Even a cheap inertial guidence system would have
drift rates of at most 20 meters per minute; given its speed of well
over 300km/h or 5km/minute so an attack on targets 25 km away would
place the missile within 100 meters of the 'enemy carrier' or 'sub'.


Trouble is we know the weapon has no sucuh guidance system
and that its range is nothing like 25 km. Russia began marketing
the conventionally armed version of the Shkval at the IDEX 99
exhibition in Abu Dhabi in early 1999. The firisng system
sets the speed, distance and vector and feeds the data to the
missile's automatic pilot. The missile is fired, achieves its
optimum depth and switches on its engines. The missile
does not have a homing warhead

Even attacks using WW2 shoot and forget collision course type aiming
with spreads of torpedos would have a high degree of success given the
enormous speed of the missile preventing evasive manouvers.

If it were not for the fact that its range is less than 8000 yards

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"Eunometic" wrote in message
m...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"Spitfiremk9" wrote in message
...
Whoops there goes another Super Carrier (steering gear & screws) !

http://www.diodon349.com/Kursk-Memor...the_squall.htm

Stop being silly

The Skhval is a short range straight runner that does NOT
home in on the steering gear or screws. The Russian
torpedo that IS dangerous in this respect is the large
Type 53-65 passive wake homing torpedo,

Keith

I doubt the Russians would produce a completely impracticable weapon.

Its a Hail Mary Weapon intended to be fired at a vessel that has
a lock on you and is about to kill you. At best it might actually hit
the enemy but there's a good chance it'll evade and in doing so
break the lock.


Almost certainly a modest degree of directional control (perhaps turn
rates of 1 degree per second) is possible if only to keep the missile
on course, homing guidence at full speed might be difficult due to
the gas cavity and rocket motor interfering with both passive and
active sonar but that wouldn't prevent the missile being equiped with
an inertial guidence system able to take the missile to within close
range of the target where it either slows down for a 'look' using
conventional passive or active sonar or it detonates a large (possibly
nuclear) warhead. Even a cheap inertial guidence system would have
drift rates of at most 20 meters per minute; given its speed of well
over 300km/h or 5km/minute so an attack on targets 25 km away would
place the missile within 100 meters of the 'enemy carrier' or 'sub'.


Trouble is we know the weapon has no sucuh guidance system
and that its range is nothing like 25 km. Russia began marketing
the conventionally armed version of the Shkval at the IDEX 99
exhibition in Abu Dhabi in early 1999. The firing system
sets the speed, distance and vector and feeds the data to the
missile's automatic pilot. The missile is fired, achieves its
optimum depth and switches on its engines. The missile
does not have a homing warhead

Even attacks using WW2 shoot and forget collision course type aiming
with spreads of torpedos would have a high degree of success given the
enormous speed of the missile preventing evasive manouvers.

If it were not for the fact that its range is less than 8000 yards

The site refered to at the begining of the thread refers to a switch
from solid propellant to liquid propulsion. This would appear to give
several advantages.

1 Higher specific impulse therfore speed and range.
2 The rocket-torpedo can be ejected from its own tube: manouever and
aligne itself towards the target at low speed by varying its thrust
and then accelerate at high speed rather than relying on a propellor
based system to achieve initial alignment.
3 After having intercepted its target at high speed it can slow down
for a 'look' using its terminal homing system and then re-alinge and
re-accelerate.

I also can see why the system can't use a trailing wire command
guidence systemn as conventional torpedos and missiles use. It may
have uses as a torpedo intercept system.




Keith

"Eunometic" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
news:colm61$gr5$1

The site refered to at the begining of the thread refers to a switch
from solid propellant to liquid propulsion. This would appear to give
several advantages.

1 Higher specific impulse therfore speed and range.

And considerable increase in risk, liquid propellants in
the torpedo room - shudders !

2 The rocket-torpedo can be ejected from its own tube: manouever and
aligne itself towards the target at low speed by varying its thrust
and then accelerate at high speed rather than relying on a propellor
based system to achieve initial alignment.

Throttlable rocket engines are considerably more complex
and the risk to the launcher just went up again.

3 After having intercepted its target at high speed it can slow down
for a 'look' using its terminal homing system and then re-alinge and
re-accelerate.


Not without turning off the gas generator for the supercavitation

I also can see why the system can't use a trailing wire command
guidence systemn as conventional torpedos and missiles use. It may
have uses as a torpedo intercept system.


That wire would trail behind the torpedo where the rocket exhaust is

Oops

Keith

How big is Shkval, anyway? Does it fire out of conventional tubes? It
just occurred to me that a system like shkval might be great as a
booster for smaller torp - sort of a submerged version of SUBROC, with
a mini torp deployed near a point pre-set by the firing sub.

In message , Eunometic
writes
I doubt the Russians would produce a completely impracticable weapon.

However, not all their concepts have proved effective when tested, and
many have performed poorly when exported in a reduced-specification
version

Almost certainly a modest degree of directional control (perhaps turn
rates of 1 degree per second) is possible

How? It's in a supercavitating bubble. Depth keeping and an
approximately straight line is the best it will manage without dumping
the bubble.

if only to keep the missile
on course, homing guidence at full speed might be difficult due to
the gas cavity

Try "impossible". That supercavitation effect blinds any possible
sensor, plus the location for the sensor array is taken up by the gas
bleed.

Similar set of problems to polyox injection, except supercavitation at
least gives a lot more speed.

and rocket motor interfering with both passive and
active sonar but that wouldn't prevent the missile being equiped with
an inertial guidence system able to take the missile to within close
range of the target where it either slows down for a 'look' using
conventional passive or active sonar or it detonates a large (possibly
nuclear) warhead.

Shkval was designed as a reactive weapon to throw a packet of instant
sunshine in the general direction of an enemy who had revealed himself
by firing. It's now being marketed as a conventional weapon intended
to... well.. go really fast.

Even a cheap inertial guidence system would have
drift rates of at most 20 meters per minute; given its speed of well
over 300km/h or 5km/minute so an attack on targets 25 km away would
place the missile within 100 meters of the 'enemy carrier' or 'sub'.

Plus five minutes of movement by the carrier or submarine, who has heard
this weapon coming. (Shkval's range is typically cited as only around
6,000 yards, for reference)

Even attacks using WW2 shoot and forget collision course type aiming
with spreads of torpedos would have a high degree of success given the
enormous speed of the missile preventing evasive manouvers.

In all this, you assume perfect targeting by the submarine, of course.
How precisely can you judge bearing, range, course and speed of a
submarine from 25 kilometres out?

--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

In article , "Keith Willshaw"
wrote:


The Skhval is a short range straight runner that does NOT
home in on the steering gear or screws. The Russian
torpedo that IS dangerous in this respect is the large
Type 53-65 passive wake homing torpedo,

Keith



I find this interesting. What do you mean by "passive wake homing"?

I know what passive guidance means; I'm just not sure what passive
signature a wake-homing Type 53-65 might be guiding on.

Thanks in advance!