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#1
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soaring into the future
I was browsing thru one of the Yahoo glider N.G.'s today and read
where the World Class design may get ressurected. That got me to thinking: What would the ideal recreational next generation sailplane sailplane look like? I imagine it won't look much different from what we are seeing now in terms of slender body shapes with sexy wingtip treatments. And with the price of carbon fiber coming down, the expanding growth of the composites industry and the rising use and availability of CNC machining, it seems that there might be a niche market for a good performing, lightweight sailplane that could be tailored for the recreational market. Would it make sense to put a 2 stroke motor in it for self launch? Or maybe look at the ever expanding world of electric motors and batteries? Right now there is an electric motor that weighs 4.5 pounds and puts out close to 20HP! I've seen it, in fact I have held it in my hands..........it is amazing. It seems that 2-strokes could easily start being banned for noise, pollution and for just not being green enough. So perhaps electric would be the logical and environmentally "correct" way to go. The non-flying public I think will start looking very critically at some point in the future at sports and other "hobby" uses of fuel and pollution sources: we should be ready for that if and when it happens, since right or wrong.............perception is a key driver in formulating public opinion. Or maybe forget self-launching and consider winch, auto or bungee launch. All these methods have and are being used successfully now, but here in the US the Aero Tow still is the preferred way to get airborn. However with rising fuel prices I really feel that at some point a lot of us won't be able to cover the expense of an aero tow. The infrastructure must be strongly considered for these "alternative" launch methods, but I believe these are not insurmountable obstacles.........we need to be ready when the real need arises. Perhaps a combination of auto tow and a "sustainer" electric motor might work; where the auto tow gets you airborn and then the electric motor get's you up to the lift, and then home again if you need it. Sure, there are a ton of sailplanes out there right now. And the Russia, Apis, Silent, Sparrowhawk and probably several more would be suitable for filling this niche. But if there is going to be a push to create a new "World Class" design, maybe instead of just making it a shortwinger and that's it, consider the whole package of what it takes to operate and enjoy flying a sailpane, and how we could generate excitement in our sport and see the ranks of glider pilots expand. My personal choice would be a ship that utilizes the right materials for the right areas; make it strong and light. Design a cockpit like the Apis; roomy and comfortable. Utilize simple and functional design methods that leverages on AC-4 and Apis manufacturing techniques. Use full span flaperons and upper Schempp-Hirth airbrakes. Overlapping spars that use 2 main wing pins and fore and aft lift pin/tube treatments. Simple automatic control hookups like DG uses. The list goes on........ I would write more...................but the Christmas Ham is almost done and dinner is near. Merry Christmas! Brad 199AK |
#2
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soaring into the future
On 25 Dec, 21:11, Brad wrote:
What would the ideal recreational next generation sailplane sailplane look like? My guess is that things will continue much as they a ever more sophisticated and beautiful aircraft, ever fewer pilots flying them. Gliding - in the UK anyway - will continue its inexorable progress from one of the cheapest air sports to one of the more expensive. It would be nice if modern design and construction techniques could trickle down to give us low priced gliders of moderate performance ... but the abject failure of the PW-5 and world class suggests that this isn't a commercially viable hope. Ian |
#3
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soaring into the future
On Dec 25, 4:11*pm, Brad wrote:
I was browsing thru one of the Yahoo glider N.G.'s today and read where the World Class design may get ressurected. That got me to thinking: What would the ideal recreational next generation sailplane sailplane look like? I I think this is an excellent subject for discussion - with SSA at 75 years - what will soaring look like in 25 years? My own contribution - and commenting on another persons post as well - perhaps we go the way of skiing? Snowboards changed the age and number of players on the slopes - so I think we need something that is the "snowboard" of soaring- How about a trainer that cannot go higher than 4 - 6 - 8 - 10 feet? if one had a way to have a primary glider - with self launch capability [ or tow down the wire with a winch?] and it could not go high enought to cause great damage on rough landings - then maybe the teens could teach themselves along side the runway while the big ships launch - and then play on the runway ( yeah, I know that won't work at some sites ) and "hop" into the air ten or twenty times in 30 minutes to get the idea of basic controls and landing understood. The craft would be something any club could assemble, not registered, and repaired by anyone on the field with foam and (epoxy - duct tape - bolts and clamps??) I have sketched up some ideas along these lines - Another thought would be a super low cost simulator - projectors costing ~ $500 today combined with software that connects to a stick and rudder pedals and runs on a used computer could let the students fly each part of the mission many times before getting into the air. At the Memphis convention, one group reported that such a simulator took a non-pilot to the point they were ready to fly with only five flights in an ASK-21 !!! (They did go for a few more circuts before solo - but all IP's on the field felt the student was completely ready.) Anything that gets the student to solo in less time is the right answer. Finally, watch out for the "Chinese" and similar low labor cost sites getting into the general aviation business. Once an India or China decides that soaring and gliding are fun - beneficial to the generation of new needed pilots - and sellable on the open market - the europeans are going to need to focus on only the highest performance and most costly machines. Over to the next writer! DBN |
#4
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soaring into the future
I'll vote for the use of simulators in training. There are sites using this
approach now and reporting good results. Many students have fears about training maneuvers but they rarely tell their instructors. Offering a syllibus where you teach each maneuver on a simulator before performing it in the air removes this fear - and speeds progress. I think this could reduce the many student dropouts. It also has the benefit of keeping students and instructors busy in wintertime. No simulator is a total and complete replacement for in-flight instruction but they can be used to advantage. Bill Daniels "Newill" "Mario Lazaga"" wrote in message ... On Dec 25, 4:11 pm, Brad wrote: I was browsing thru one of the Yahoo glider N.G.'s today and read where the World Class design may get ressurected. That got me to thinking: What would the ideal recreational next generation sailplane sailplane look like? I I think this is an excellent subject for discussion - with SSA at 75 years - what will soaring look like in 25 years? My own contribution - and commenting on another persons post as well - perhaps we go the way of skiing? Snowboards changed the age and number of players on the slopes - so I think we need something that is the "snowboard" of soaring- How about a trainer that cannot go higher than 4 - 6 - 8 - 10 feet? if one had a way to have a primary glider - with self launch capability [ or tow down the wire with a winch?] and it could not go high enought to cause great damage on rough landings - then maybe the teens could teach themselves along side the runway while the big ships launch - and then play on the runway ( yeah, I know that won't work at some sites ) and "hop" into the air ten or twenty times in 30 minutes to get the idea of basic controls and landing understood. The craft would be something any club could assemble, not registered, and repaired by anyone on the field with foam and (epoxy - duct tape - bolts and clamps??) I have sketched up some ideas along these lines - Another thought would be a super low cost simulator - projectors costing ~ $500 today combined with software that connects to a stick and rudder pedals and runs on a used computer could let the students fly each part of the mission many times before getting into the air. At the Memphis convention, one group reported that such a simulator took a non-pilot to the point they were ready to fly with only five flights in an ASK-21 !!! (They did go for a few more circuts before solo - but all IP's on the field felt the student was completely ready.) Anything that gets the student to solo in less time is the right answer. Finally, watch out for the "Chinese" and similar low labor cost sites getting into the general aviation business. Once an India or China decides that soaring and gliding are fun - beneficial to the generation of new needed pilots - and sellable on the open market - the europeans are going to need to focus on only the highest performance and most costly machines. Over to the next writer! DBN |
#5
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soaring into the future
On Dec 25, 5:54 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
I'll vote for the use of simulators in training. There are sites using this approach now and reporting good results. Many students have fears about training maneuvers but they rarely tell their instructors. Offering a syllibus where you teach each maneuver on a simulator before performing it in the air removes this fear - and speeds progress. I think this could reduce the many student dropouts. It also has the benefit of keeping students and instructors busy in wintertime. No simulator is a total and complete replacement for in-flight instruction but they can be used to advantage. Bill Daniels "Newill" "Mario Lazaga"" wrote in ... On Dec 25, 4:11 pm, Brad wrote: I was browsing thru one of the Yahoo glider N.G.'s today and read where the World Class design may get ressurected. That got me to thinking: What would the ideal recreational next generation sailplane sailplane look like? I I think this is an excellent subject for discussion - with SSA at 75 years - what will soaring look like in 25 years? My own contribution - and commenting on another persons post as well - perhaps we go the way of skiing? Snowboards changed the age and number of players on the slopes - so I think we need something that is the "snowboard" of soaring- How about a trainer that cannot go higher than 4 - 6 - 8 - 10 feet? if one had a way to have a primary glider - with self launch capability [ or tow down the wire with a winch?] and it could not go high enought to cause great damage on rough landings - then maybe the teens could teach themselves along side the runway while the big ships launch - and then play on the runway ( yeah, I know that won't work at some sites ) and "hop" into the air ten or twenty times in 30 minutes to get the idea of basic controls and landing understood. The craft would be something any club could assemble, not registered, and repaired by anyone on the field with foam and (epoxy - duct tape - bolts and clamps??) I have sketched up some ideas along these lines - Another thought would be a super low cost simulator - projectors costing ~ $500 today combined with software that connects to a stick and rudder pedals and runs on a used computer could let the students fly each part of the mission many times before getting into the air. At the Memphis convention, one group reported that such a simulator took a non-pilot to the point they were ready to fly with only five flights in an ASK-21 !!! (They did go for a few more circuts before solo - but all IP's on the field felt the student was completely ready.) Anything that gets the student to solo in less time is the right answer. Finally, watch out for the "Chinese" and similar low labor cost sites getting into the general aviation business. Once an India or China decides that soaring and gliding are fun - beneficial to the generation of new needed pilots - and sellable on the open market - the europeans are going to need to focus on only the highest performance and most costly machines. Over to the next writer! DBN Simulators have some impact. Bill has used Condor as an effective white board. YSA's was to move students ahead about six flights in learning, not necessarily to solo earlier. Paul Moggach will have to comment on whether they have achieved that. Their simulator budget was a donated $25,000 for their Mk IV iteration as show on their web site. I think the Mk I was at the convention. It was also used to demonstarate instructor methods and outreach. http://www.yorksoaring.com/FlightSimulator/ includes a short video. Larger projection screens are now readily available. Frank Whiteley |
#6
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soaring into the future
On 25 Dec, 23:05, "Newill\" \"Mario Lazaga\""
wrote: How about a trainer that cannot go higher than 4 - 6 - 8 - 10 feet? if one had a way to have a primary glider - with self launch capability [ or tow down the wire with a winch?] and it could not go high enought to cause great damage on rough landings - then maybe the teens could teach themselves along side the runway while the big ships launch - and then play on the runway ( yeah, I know that won't work at some sites ) and "hop" into the air ten or twenty times in 30 minutes to get the idea of basic controls and landing understood. Traditional primaries (SG-38, Eon Primary, Slingsby T38 and lots more) had an elevator stop for exactly this reason. Ground slides, low hops, high hops, full launch. Ann Welch was one of the most vocal advocates of two-seater training because of the high level of accidents and injuries with solo training. However, modern design might improve things a lot ... it would be interesting to see what a 2008 Primary might look like. Ian |
#7
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soaring into the future
"Ian" wrote in message ... On 25 Dec, 23:05, "Newill\" \"Mario Lazaga\"" wrote: How about a trainer that cannot go higher than 4 - 6 - 8 - 10 feet? if one had a way to have a primary glider - with self launch capability [ or tow down the wire with a winch?] and it could not go high enought to cause great damage on rough landings - then maybe the teens could teach themselves along side the runway while the big ships launch - and then play on the runway ( yeah, I know that won't work at some sites ) and "hop" into the air ten or twenty times in 30 minutes to get the idea of basic controls and landing understood. Traditional primaries (SG-38, Eon Primary, Slingsby T38 and lots more) had an elevator stop for exactly this reason. Ground slides, low hops, high hops, full launch. Ann Welch was one of the most vocal advocates of two-seater training because of the high level of accidents and injuries with solo training. However, modern design might improve things a lot ... it would be interesting to see what a 2008 Primary might look like. Ian I think the 2008 version of this is a flight simulator. Bill Daniels |
#8
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soaring into the future
The ideal recreational next generation sailplane? Gliders that are self-launch and jet-powered. Raul Boerner DM LS6-b |
#9
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soaring into the future
On 25 Dec, 23:39, wrote:
The ideal recreational next generation sailplane? Gliders that are self-launch and jet-powered. I can't see the point in jets, really. They are much better at higher altitudes - when you get lower down you really need a propellor. Small jet sustainers might be fun, though and the 200N thrust required to keep a 1000kg 50:1 glider up should be quite achievable. Ian |
#10
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soaring into the future
Ian wrote: I can't see the point in jets, really... Small jet sustainers might be fun, though. Fun is the key word. Since we are wishing into the future, my thought is that the small jet engine should be more reliable due to fewer moving parts (likely just one). The weight should be less, the size smaller, and operation should be smooth with little to no vibration. Extension and retraction is quicker. Their drag profile is much smaller; thus creating less of a problem if it extends but fails to start. For repairs, it can be removed easily and put into a shoe box to be mailed. All of these characteristics make for a great jet sustainer, and hopefully an even better self-launcher. I'm not an engineer, just a dreamer. But designers should be able to come up with something small, powerful, reliable, simple, and of course, inexpensive (sort of). Raul Boerner |
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