Lucky to be alive?

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote:

So he is a moron, should have his ticket yanked, etc. etc. because his luck
ran out and he didn't find the VFR he was expecting?

What happened to the 180 degree turn-around? Can't admit defeat and
retreat? Must press on at all costs?


--
Peter

"Roger" wrote in message
...

VFR over the top here in the states is quite common.


I thought VFR over cloud cover was only legal if the ground can be sighted
at least once every 30 minutes.
Oz/Crash Lander

I thought VFR over cloud cover was only legal if the ground can be sighted
at least once every 30 minutes.

In the states it is legal without such a restriction. In fact, such a
restriction doesn't make sense, since you don't know (until it happens)
when you'll be able to sight ground, nor is that glimpse necessarily all
that helpful. What's the rule in Oz?

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
t...
I thought VFR over cloud cover was only legal if the ground can be
sighted at least once every 30 minutes.

In the states it is legal without such a restriction. In fact, such a
restriction doesn't make sense, since you don't know (until it happens)
when you'll be able to sight ground, nor is that glimpse necessarily all
that helpful. What's the rule in Oz?

Jose
--

I have the regs at home. I'll look it up and let you know exactly what it
says, but from memory, it's something like .... Every 30 minutes, for long
enough to maintain positive navigation.... or some such. In other words, you
can't go with 8 OCTA.
Oz/Crash Lander

"Jose" wrote in message
t...
I thought VFR over cloud cover was only legal if the ground can be
sighted at least once every 30 minutes.

In the states it is legal without such a restriction. In fact, such a
restriction doesn't make sense, since you don't know (until it happens)
when you'll be able to sight ground, nor is that glimpse necessarily all
that helpful. What's the rule in Oz?

Jose

Here are the specs: (Cut and pasted from
http://www.auf.asn.au/navigation/airspace.html)
Visual Meteorological Conditions
Ultralight - and non-instrument rated pilot - operations may only be
conducted in Visual Meteorological Conditions [VMC].The visual
meteorological conditions [minima] applicable below 10 000 feet amsl, and
thus the VMC for ultralight, and most light aircraft, operations (take-off,
enroute and landing) a


a.. minimum average range of visibility forward from the cockpit - 5000
metres. 'Visibility' means the ability to see and identify prominent
objects. The problem of course is that there may not be any prominent
identifiable objects when flying over featureless areas and, secondly, few
people are adept at judging distance from the cockpit.
b.. horizontal cloud clearance - 1500 metres
c.. vertical cloud clearance - 1000 feet.
d.. If the visibility is less than 5000 metres or either cloud clearance
is below the minima then Instrument Meteorological Conditions [IMC] exist.
If operating (in Class G airspace) at or below 3000 feet amsl or 1000 feet
agl, whichever is the higher, an ultralight or other aircraft may operate
'clear of cloud' but remaining in sight of the ground, provided the aircraft
is equipped with a serviceable VHF radio, the pilot has a radio endorsement
and the pilot listens out and transmits on the appropriate area frequency.
Note that a non radio equipped aeroplane can then only operate in conditions
where the cloud base is 1000 feet above the flight level, thus such an
aircraft can only take-off and land when the cloud base is 1000 feet higher
than the circuit height and the horizontal cloud clearance is at least 1500
metres. Even when there is no regulatory requirement the carriage of VHF
radio, and the continual maintenance of a listening watch, is highly
recommended.

Visual Flight Rules
The Visual Flight Rules applicable to ultralight, and most light aircraft,
operations are primarily 'see and avoid' other traffic, plus the following
specifics:


a.. VMC must be maintained during the entire flight (climb, cruise and
descent) and the flight conducted in daylight hours,
b.. the pilot must be able to navigate by reference to the ground and
c.. position fixes must be taken at least every 30 minutes.
VFR 'on top'
In addition an aircraft cannot be operated on top of cloud which is more
extensive than scattered unless it is fitted with serviceable flight and
navigation instruments as specified in CAO 20.18 appendix IV - which
includes an artificial horizon and directional gyro. Other restrictions
apply, see AIP ENR 1.1 19.2. Taking all into account it is probably unwise
for an ultralight aircraft to operate above any cloud cover.
Oz/Crash Lander

b.. the pilot must be able to navigate by reference to the ground and
c.. position fixes must be taken at least every 30 minutes.

Interesting. (Oz rules)

Does (b) mean that at any point in the flight, one must be able to
determine their position by reference to the ground visible at the time?
Or does this allow ded reckoning between visual fixes?

Given that radio navigation equipment is probably required and certainly
permitted when "over the top", do the position fixes required in (c)
need to be visual, or can they be VOR fixes?

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Crash Lander wrote:




I have the regs at home. I'll look it up and let you know exactly what it
says, but from memory, it's something like .... Every 30 minutes, for long
enough to maintain positive navigation.... or some such.

Wow, you guys only need to get a glimpse of the landscape every 30
minutes to navigate correctly? That's pretty good.

"Jose" wrote in message
om...
b.. the pilot must be able to navigate by reference to the ground and
c.. position fixes must be taken at least every 30 minutes.

Interesting. (Oz rules)

Does (b) mean that at any point in the flight, one must be able to
determine their position by reference to the ground visible at the time?
Or does this allow ded reckoning between visual fixes?

Given that radio navigation equipment is probably required and certainly
permitted when "over the top", do the position fixes required in (c) need
to be visual, or can they be VOR fixes?

Jose

No idea. I'm still at the circuits stage of my training, so unfortunately I
can't answer that with any great accuracy yet.
Oz/Crash Lander

Crash Lander writes:

I thought VFR over cloud cover was only legal if the ground can be sighted
at least once every 30 minutes.

In that case, an SR-71 can fly anywhere in the world under VFR.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Peter R. wrote:
"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote:

So he is a moron, should have his ticket yanked, etc. etc. because his luck
ran out and he didn't find the VFR he was expecting?

What happened to the 180 degree turn-around? Can't admit defeat and
retreat? Must press on at all costs?


The terrain around Asheville isn't particularly helpful. The airport sits down
in a valley at 2165'. There are peaks rising up over 6000' all over the place.
You better know where the hell you're going when you enter the clouds around
Asheville... or be really high.

I had a roommate once who flew a cancelled check route into Asheville every day
in a Bonanza. Just the thought of it used to give me the willies. She'd get
home and crack open a beer the second she got home just so she could refuse any
popup flights afterwards "because I've just had a beer."

Good looking honey too... could have been the twin sister of Nicole Brown
Simpson except she had blonde hair and blue eyes... Norwegian. But I
digress....

Aviators from out west can turn their noses up at the Smoky Mountains but rocks
are rocks. Best not to fly into them.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com