Standard Cirrus

On Mar 18, 6:43*pm, Tony wrote:
The only problem I have with an ASW-28 or LS-8 is I can't buy a nice
example with a good trailer for under 20K





And if the Std Cirrus defines "excellent", how do we describe an ASW28
or an LS8?

I got the impression the person asking the question was not enamored
with the the Std Cirrus, but was trying to do a cost/benefit analysis. I
was encouraging him to think beyond the basics and consider the value of
buying more safety and a nicer flying glider.

Just in case it's not clear: I owned a Std Cirrus for two years
(1978-1980), flew it for 500 hours, and had a lot of fun in it; however,
it's 45 year old design, and now there are many better choices. I don't
think it's a dangerous glider, but it does have characteristics less
suited to a relatively new pilot than, say, an LS4, or other newer gliders.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA -

The main advantages of the Standard Cirrus is that you can get 90% of
the performance of the latter types for 40% of the cost. It is also a
good Club Class glider on handicap.

Derek C

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 05:48:17 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Mar 16, 9:55*pm, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
Okay folks, your thoughts on the Standard Cirrus? *Good, bad
indifferent? *Flying tail, pros and cons? *I am new to gliding,
Commercial Add on, 140 flights and approx 100 hours, mostly in 1-34.
Would this be a reasonable next step?

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

This would be a reasonable step given some intermediate glider
experience. Get a good check out from a knowledgable
instructor and ideally, a pilot that is skilled in type.
Good Luck
UH

I've been flying a Std Cirrus for about 20 years.
Transition from Grob G103 Astir Jeans was easy.
Indeed, the 'all-moving tail' can be a source of pilot induced
oscillation. Simply lock your wrist on your knee, and move the stick
with your fingers.
Try not to buy a ship older than serial # ~175. After ~1972, the wing
washout has been increased from -.75° to -1.5°, making the sailplane
safer to land, and improves rolls and climbing.

Willy VINKEN - OO-ZNY

On Mar 16, 6:55*pm, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
Okay folks, your thoughts on the Standard Cirrus? *Good, bad
indifferent? *Flying tail, pros and cons? *I am new to gliding,
Commercial Add on, 140 flights and approx 100 hours, mostly in 1-34.
Would this be a reasonable next step?

From Dick Johnson's test of a Standard Cirrus:

"One of the outstandingly good features of the Standard Cirrus is its
well-arranged cockpit. It is capable of fitting large pilots
comfortably, has room for a normal-size instrument panel, and yet
provides the pilot with excellent visibility. The controls operate
freely and are well located. The side-hinged canopy opens and closes
with ease and is much more convenient than the non-hinged removable
type which usually must be placed on the ground or handled by an
assistant when entering and exiting the cockpit.

Mediocre flight characteristics on the Cirrus B are its longitudinal
stablility, controll and stalling. The longitudinal stability is
relatively low compared to the PIK-20 or Schweizer 1-35, and this
requires some additional pilot attention to maintain aero tow position
or fly at constant airspeeds. At high airspeeds the control stick
elevator pressures are quite low, and care must be taken not to
overcontrol. Some warning is given at stall, but the roll-off is
rather rapid and it apparently will enter a spin rather quickly. The
earlier Standard Cirrus A was reported to be worse in that regard, and
for that reason the wing washout was increased about .75 degrees. For
the above reasons, I would recommend that pilots with less than about
100 flying hours should not fly the Standard Cirrus. Experienced
pilots with current proficiency should have little difficulty, and to
those I recommend the Standard Cirrrus B as an excellent sailplane.

Fig. 1 shows that its measured flight performance is relatively good,
indicating an L/D max of about 35.9 at 51 knots calibrated airspeed,
and about 440 ft./min. sink rate at 90 knots calibrated airspeed. The
reason for the emphasis on the words "calibrated" is that one of the
less-good features of the Standard Cirrus B is its large airspeed
system errors.

The earlier Standard Cirrus A reported by Paul Bickle in reference 1,
had its static ports located on the forward fuselage sides near the
instrument panel. This location produce suction at all airspeeds,
which caused the airspeed indicators to read considerably high at all
speeds. At stall this error amounted to about 2.5 knots high for the
Standard Cirrus A, whereas the Standard Cirrus B shows one knot low,
or a difference of 3.5 knots in indicated airspeed. This was excellent
brochuremanship and resulted in many people believing their new Cirrus
possessed 4 mph lower stalling speeds. At high airspeeds both the A
and B models show considerable static port suction, such that the
indicated airspeed is about seven knots above its correct calibrated
airspeed. Again good brochuremanship, but no help in contest flying."

And Derek Piggot's opinion:

Early versions of the Standard Cirrus were rather under-braked and
might be a problem for early field landings. The later Cirrus 75 has
an improved wing and better airbrakes and a few Standard Cirrus have
been modified to have a double area airbrake blade similar to that on
the Pirat. This appears to be a worthwhile modification as it
considerably improves the power of the airbrakes. The all moving
stabilizer and spring trimming make it sensitive, if not 'twitchy' at
higher speeds. With the c.g near the aft limit, inexperienced pilots
may run into pitching problems, so to improve stability the initial
flights should be made with extra ballast in the cockpit to bring the
c.g. well forward. Pilots should be carefully briefed to avoid
overcontrolling, particularly just after take-off on aerotow. In all
other respects the Standard Cirrus is a nice machine with good
handling and stalling, and a competitive performance. It is only
suitable for the very competent Bronze C pilot and is perhaps a better
second glass glider.

I flew serial number 208 for about 15 years and enjoyed it but I think
there are characteristics that have not been mentioned in this thread
that you should be aware of. I found assembly easy and mine had the
older style connections to the controls and that meant inserting the
safety pins by Braille behind the spars. I got reasonably good at it
but some friends with the same plane really struggled. If the Cirrus
has had the mod to put an inspection hole behind the cockpit that is a
plus.

Another factor is the location of the instrument panel. It is very
far forward and if you tend to recline in the cockpit and have normal
to short arms, you will not be able to reach the instrument or radio
controls without undoing the belts. I also had to put an extension on
the tow release so that I could reach it.

The oxygen bottle is located in a position that cannot be reached from
the cockpit and thus must be turned on and off before and after the
flight. I have seen a system built to cure that with a long extension
bolted to the bottle valve but it was a Rube Goldberg at best. It is
also a bear to get in and out to refill.

The canopy is very sensitive to heat and can distort enough on a hot
day to render it almost impossible to close and seal and the same is
true on a very cold day. These issue were not unique to my plane. I
know other Standard Cirruses with the same problem.

There are not many good places to put batteries in a Stand Cirrus and
if you plan to use two batteries and change them with each flight, be
very aware of their location on any plane you buy. Some locations
require that you be sure to install and remove the batteries with the
wings out. it is very annoying to get the plane put together and
remember that the batteries go in first. I solved that by locating
the batteries in front of the wheel well but just be aware of this.

The CG tow hook necessitates a hard rubber (or equivalant) tail wheel
or you will be all over the place on take off.

All the other issues about poor brakes, marginal spoilers, and high
speed sensitivity of the all flying tail are certainly true but I
found they were just things that one adapts to and soon forgets. I
transitioned to the Standard Cirrus from a Grob 102 after only 18
hours (3 in the 102) and found it to be very easy to fly. My comment
at the time was "Just like a big Piper Cub." with gentle stalls, lots
of warning and could climb very well because it could be flown so
slowly with confidence.

For what it is worth.

Greg Foster