Primary training in a Hi Perf complex acft

Mxsmanic wrote:

Eeyore writes:

Good Lord you're amazingly stupid !

Remember that USENET is archived. Someday, when airliners really are piloted
automatically,

It's not going to happen. For so many obvious reasons. That you can't see those
reasons speaks volumes.


you can look back on what you've said above and try to laugh.

LMAO !

Graham

Mxsmanic wrote:

John Mazor writes:

And it's possible for crew to fly for 16 hours straight with
no relief crew or stops, without an accident. Just because
it can be done doesn't mean that it's desirable, let alone
optimal.

Where sim-only training is being done

And where is that ?

Graham

George wrote:

"John Mazor" wrote:

You obviously have not the slightest concept of what goes on
in the cockpits of airliners every day.

It never stops him from venturing his lack of such knowledge

Yes, the vast
majority of flights are routine or encounter only minor,
easily fixed problems. Be it 99% or 99.9%, it's that last
"9" that "proves the concept" that on any given day,
somewhere in the entire air transport system, some crew
saves their behinds and those of their passengers by
exercising experience and skills that rise above the lower
level of what is normally required. And that's what makes
flying on on an airline the safest possible way to get from
A to B in the U.S.

Flying is the safest way to get anywhere in the world..

Just take care in Africa.

Graham

Mxsmanic wrote:

There is no equivalent to flying a non-revenue flight for
practice, which is a major flaw in your analogy.

Eh ?

Graham

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 14:40:11 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:
snip

I've had several people who bought their own high performance airplanes
before starting instruction and then went on with me from the beginning
on through the program. Solo took a few hours more, but after that, all
was basically normal from there. I wouldn't say it was all that much
more difficult teaching them in these airplanes than it would have been
in a 150 Cessna or a 140 Cherokee.
In the end, it all depends on the same things in this scenario that it
does in a non- high performance airplane;
1.The motivation of both the student and the instructor
2.The competence of the instructor

snip

Pretty much says it all.

As an alleged technician, my initial "training" was flying right seat
in whatever freighthog was flying with whichever freightdog that had
been flying all day and wanted someone to ride along half the night.

Again, as an alleged technician, the systems side of " learning" in a
complex, high performance aircraft was pretty much a non-event.

I'm sure that you understand that a little higher level of knowledge
is needed to efficiently troubleshoot and maintain a system than to
fly behind it (inside it?).

Finally did my official primary training in a 7AC, then a PA38-112,
but had more real-life "lessons" in complex, high performance singles
(& twins) than the traditional trainer.

Most of these "lessons" were from professional pilots with 5K-10K
hours.

Would also agree that if one can keep up with the airplane, most c h-p
singles are easier to fly with regard to the overall "harmony" of the
flight controls, and from having plenty of power-opposed to having
barely enuff.

Always enjoy reading your stuff, sorta wish I coulda gotten into
warbirds instead of GA 25 years ago...

Regards;

TC

wrote:

Always enjoy reading your stuff, sorta wish I coulda gotten into
warbirds instead of GA 25 years ago...

Regards;

TC

Thank you.
If its any consolation on the Warbirds, go to bed tonight knowing you
are MUCH, MUCH richer than you would have been flying these things.
:-))
Dudley Henriques

Eeyore writes:

So you haven't actually flown *for real*.

I haven't flown outside simulation, yes.

And yes I have. Today's PC sims may seem convincing but even the big commercial
multi-axis jobs still aren't the same as the real thing.

The big commercial jobs are good enough to teach you to fly the real aircraft
from start to finish. They can't do aerobatics, but you don't do aerobatics
in a real jet airliner, either.

What type of aircraft have you flown, in simulation or for real?

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Dave Doe writes:

Can you name any airlines anywhere on the planet that train their pilots
that way?

Name them? No. But I know that this is the current trend. And some airlines
don't really train much at all, in the way it is understood in the USA, which
is why safety records are so dismal outside the developed world.

eg. does the USA train their fighter pilots starting off in the FA-18's
they'll fly?

I don't know. I'm not interested in military aircraft. They obviously could,
although flying the real aircraft is expensive (and dangerous, for a low-time
pilot). Simulation is an option, but it's hard to simulate all the possible
movements of a fighter aircraft. I presume that early training is done on
cheaper aircraft, or in simulators.

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Eeyore writes:

PPLs don't apply to such aircraft.

Oh ... so you don't need a PPL to fly a 747?

Is that what you think ?

When it comes to airliners, I am _certain_ of it.

In actual fact you may be right that's it's enirely possible but basic piloting
skills are deemed an essential ingedient of the package.

They are deemed essential by regulatory fiat, but in reality, they aren't
essential at all. At least not the "skills" one learns in tin cans and other
aircraft besides the target type of aircraft.

It's not how it's done.

Not in the USA. But it can be done. Apparently some places are doing it. It
makes economic sense.

Anyway, I think it has been fairly well established here that you can do all
your training in a high-performance aircraft, if you wish. I don't see why
that aircraft could not be a jet airliner, if the price is right. Or is there
some regulatory barrier to starting and finishing exclusively in, say, a 737?

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Eeyore writes:

It's not going to happen. For so many obvious reasons. That you can't see those
reasons speaks volumes.

Famous last words.

I don't think it will happen soon, but I've seen too much to make any absolute
statements about it never happening.

Hopefully your livelihood will not depend on piloting a plane when it does
happen.

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