Problems in a commercial flight

Hello everybody,
I want to tell you what's happened during a Finnair flight from
Helsinki to Milan, I'm not an expert of flight.

During the entire flight, I noticed that the aircraft was continuosly
rolling to right, and the pilot was correcting every 10-20 seconds the
attitude. I noticed this, because I was looking to the right wing and
the wing was continuosly going down of few centimeters, and after few
seconds there was a slight correction.

During landing, the aircraft was definitively rolling clockwise, in
fact when we touched the ground, it was really yawing and sliding, and
the pilot had to take a decise correction in order to align the
aircraft to the track.

I'm really not an expert, but I was wondering:

- what could have been the problem? The right engine?
- the pilot behaved correctly, completing the flight until destination
and trying this landing? An intermediate step could have been better?
- we have been in some danger, during the flight or at the moment of
landing?
- this episodes are made pubblic in some register, or the companies
try to hide them as much as possible?

Thanks!
Max

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:08:34 +0100, megaMAX
wrote:

Hello everybody,
I want to tell you what's happened during a Finnair flight from
Helsinki to Milan, I'm not an expert of flight.

Obviously...

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 23:45:10 GMT, B A R R Y
wrote:

Hello everybody,
I want to tell you what's happened during a Finnair flight from
Helsinki to Milan, I'm not an expert of flight.

Obviously...

And so what? I'm just asking since I don't know if it's normal or
what...


Max

In article ,
megaMAX wrote:

During the entire flight, I noticed that the aircraft was continuosly
rolling to right, and the pilot was correcting every 10-20 seconds the
attitude. I noticed this, because I was looking to the right wing and
the wing was continuosly going down of few centimeters, and after few
seconds there was a slight correction.

a wing movement of a few centimeters is nothing.

don't worry about it.

--
Bob Noel
(gave up lookingn for a particular sig the lawyer will)

megaMAX writes:

During the entire flight, I noticed that the aircraft was continuosly
rolling to right, and the pilot was correcting every 10-20 seconds the
attitude. I noticed this, because I was looking to the right wing and
the wing was continuosly going down of few centimeters, and after few
seconds there was a slight correction.

A few centimeters? What type of aircraft was it?

Most commercial flights are flown on autopilot for the vast majority of the
trip. Thus you would have seen autopilot corrections, not pilot corrections.

- what could have been the problem? The right engine?

A crosswind is the most likely cause. Possible causes that are orders of
magnitude less likely include asymmetric thrust (including one engine shut
down, depending on the aircraft). Asymmetry in control surfaces. Bad trim.

- the pilot behaved correctly, completing the flight until destination
and trying this landing? An intermediate step could have been better?

Most likely there was nothing wrong, so there was nothing that needed to be
done. Constant small corrections are normal in flight. If there are
substantial winds aloft (and there usually are), the corrections are likely to
be mostly in one direction.

- we have been in some danger, during the flight or at the moment of
landing?

From your description, there is no reason to believe that the flight was in
any danger, and the corrections sound like nothing more than what is normal
for any flight.

- this episodes are made pubblic in some register, or the companies
try to hide them as much as possible?

There's nothing to hide or record for a normal flight.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 01:18:33 +0100, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Most commercial flights are flown on autopilot for the vast majority of the
trip. Thus you would have seen autopilot corrections, not pilot corrections.

Yes, this is really probable, since it was a very regular and periodic
correction, every few seconds.

Most likely there was nothing wrong, so there was nothing that needed to be
done. Constant small corrections are normal in flight. If there are
substantial winds aloft (and there usually are), the corrections are likely to
be mostly in one direction.

Ok, but what about landing? The landing runway wasn't in the same
direction of the rest of the flight, so the wind probably was blowing
in a different direction.

My sensation was that, at the moment of landing, the pilot was really
not able to have a good trim due to a decise clockwise roll, that he
was really not able to correct with the normal actions, despite of
various tentatives. The impression was like that the right engine was
not enough "powerful", or the airplane was heavier on the right side.
Of course, impressions of a not-expert people.

But since I had a large number of flights in my life and I know what
happens in case of lateral wind, also during landing, I repeat that my
sensation was not of lateral wind.

From your description, there is no reason to believe that the flight was in
any danger, and the corrections sound like nothing more than what is normal
for any flight.

Ok, thank you: I was really calm during the flight, only after landing
I was wondering about what has happened and I was curious about that.

Massimo

megaMAX writes:

Ok, but what about landing?

There is often wind at the surface during landing as well. If the wind is
significant, the pilot must adjust for it as he lands the aircraft (most
landings are done manually by the pilot, although many modern airliners can
land themselves if the pilot configures them to do so). If the wind is
steady, the pilot applies a constant correction to keep the aircraft aligned
with the runway. If it is gusting, he may have to constantly adjust the
controls to maintain alignment. You would see this as continual changes in
attitude, with slight rolling to one side or the other (the aircraft must roll
in order to turn).

The landing runway wasn't in the same
direction of the rest of the flight, so the wind probably was blowing
in a different direction.

Winds often blow in different directions at different altitudes, including at
the surface, so the correction applied must change as the altitude changes.

My sensation was that, at the moment of landing, the pilot was really
not able to have a good trim due to a decise clockwise roll, that he
was really not able to correct with the normal actions, despite of
various tentatives.

The sensations are often stronger than the actual corrections applied. Most
airliners are flown in an exceedingly docile way, which gives no hint of the
maneuvers that they can safely undertake. If the pilot had to make greater
than usual corrections, this could easily give the impression that the
aircraft is moving dramatically, even though it is not. It's moving more than
it normally does, but it is not moving in any unsafe way. It's just that
normal flight is so gentle (deliberately so, since this helps ensure the
comfort of passengers) that any departure from this seems extreme in
comparison.

The impression was like that the right engine was
not enough "powerful", or the airplane was heavier on the right side.
Of course, impressions of a not-expert people.

The engines are more than powerful enough to ensure safe flight. Pilots are
able to land a twin-engine aircraft with just one engine, and aircraft with
more than two engines are even easier to land with an engine out. However,
engines almost never fail (most airline pilots will go through their entire
careers without experiencing an engine failure), so it's unlikely that an
engine problem occurred in this case.

But since I had a large number of flights in my life and I know what
happens in case of lateral wind, also during landing, I repeat that my
sensation was not of lateral wind.

You can't feel a lateral wind. You can only feel corrections made for it, and
sometimes not even that. Without being in the cockpit and seeing the
instruments, it can be difficult to determine just how the aircraft is moving,
from the viewpoint of a passenger with only a small window on one side of the
plane.

Ok, thank you: I was really calm during the flight, only after landing
I was wondering about what has happened and I was curious about that.

Do you have a fear of flying? People who become concerned about a few
centimeters of movement in a wingtip or who interpret unusual experiences as
possible engine failures often do.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

megaMAX wrote:
Hello everybody,
I want to tell you what's happened during a Finnair flight from
Helsinki to Milan, I'm not an expert of flight.

During the entire flight, I noticed that the aircraft was continuosly
rolling to right, and the pilot was correcting every 10-20 seconds the
attitude. I noticed this, because I was looking to the right wing and
the wing was continuosly going down of few centimeters, and after few
seconds there was a slight correction.

During landing, the aircraft was definitively rolling clockwise, in
fact when we touched the ground, it was really yawing and sliding, and
the pilot had to take a decise correction in order to align the
aircraft to the track.

I'm really not an expert, but I was wondering:

- what could have been the problem? The right engine?
- the pilot behaved correctly, completing the flight until destination
and trying this landing? An intermediate step could have been better?
- we have been in some danger, during the flight or at the moment of
landing?
- this episodes are made pubblic in some register, or the companies
try to hide them as much as possible?

Thanks!
Max

That is normal. Most airplanes will "wander" just a little when on
autopilot.

Matt

On 2007-03-13 17:43:50 -0700, megaMAX
said:

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 01:18:33 +0100, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Most commercial flights are flown on autopilot for the vast majority of the
trip. Thus you would have seen autopilot corrections, not pilot corrections.

Just so you know, Msxmanic does not know any more about flight than you
do. He is not a pilot. He is just some nut who hangs out here and
pretends to know what he is talking about.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On 2007-03-13 16:08:34 -0700, megaMAX
said:

Hello everybody,
I want to tell you what's happened during a Finnair flight from
Helsinki to Milan, I'm not an expert of flight.

During the entire flight, I noticed that the aircraft was continuosly
rolling to right, and the pilot was correcting every 10-20 seconds the
attitude. I noticed this, because I was looking to the right wing and
the wing was continuosly going down of few centimeters, and after few
seconds there was a slight correction.

Not unusual at all. It could just be normal cycling of the autopilot.


During landing, the aircraft was definitively rolling clockwise, in
fact when we touched the ground, it was really yawing and sliding, and
the pilot had to take a decise correction in order to align the
aircraft to the track.

This is also normal in a crosswind landing. The wind is blowing from
the direction that the wing is down. Since the pilot does not want to
land too much sideways, he will kick the plane around so it points
straight down the runway just before touchdown.


I'm really not an expert, but I was wondering:

- what could have been the problem? The right engine?
- the pilot behaved correctly, completing the flight until destination
and trying this landing? An intermediate step could have been better?
- we have been in some danger, during the flight or at the moment of
landing?
- this episodes are made pubblic in some register, or the companies
try to hide them as much as possible?

Minor problems with the airplane are recorded in the airplane's
logbooks. In the US, accidents are recorded in the NTSB database. Not
all countries maintain such a database, however.


Thanks!
Max


--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor